What you're gonna do, brother, when Jeff Townsend Media runs wild on you. Have you been searching for a podcast? Do you want to learn from some great content creators? Well you've come to the right place Indy Podcaster with your host Jeff Townsend, the Indie podcast Father. All right, all right, all right, this is Jeff Townsend. Thank you for checking out another episode of Indie Podcaster. This podcast is made for podcasters and other content creators. Certainly don't consider myself a guru, or either do any of my friends that will be featured in these episodes. But what we do like to do is talk content creation, pick each other's brains, and have a good time. I'm proud to mention that this podcast is sponsored by Indie drop In. Now, let me tell you something about Indie Dropping. This is an awesome network that my friend Greg has created. What he does is drop episodes from independent content creator into his established podcast audience on his feed, and he shares your episodes to an audience that already exists. Yes, it's like free advertisement promotion for your podcast. He spent a lot of time, money, and effort building it, and he already has an audience interested in the content, and he can certainly help you by sharing your content is great promotion. Go to indie drop in dot com slash creators and check it out. If you're a comedy, true crime, paranormal, for various other different kinds of podcasts, you can benefit from this. So I really encourage you once again go to indie drop in dot com slash creators and see if you can get your stuff featured on indie drop in. We'll go back to the podcast here Indie Podcasters. So what we've currently been doing is sharing content from three different projects that I'm involved in. The first is Good Morning Podcasters with my good friend Fuzz Martin. We also do some content on podcasting Sucks, and then in these episodes you will also hear some content from podcasting Power Hour. Podcasting Power Hour is a live thing we do on Twitter spaces. We get a whole bunch of great podcast minds together we talk podcasting. So if you're a content creator a podcaster, I think you'll take something away from every episode of the content I'm going to share with you. With that being said, make sure you check out Eddie drop in and make sure you enjoy this episode. I think it's important that we all continue to learn and grow every day, and that will help us become even better content creators. That's certainly what I try to do, learn something new every day. I'm excited to share this content with you. I think it'll be a learning experience for you. Let's get to this episode, and I hope you have a great time listening to it. Welcome to Podcasting Power Hour with your host Jeff Townsend aka the Indie podcast Father. I'm your co host, Greg from Indie drop In Network. Podcasting Power Hour is recorded live every Monday at nine pm Eastern Time on Twitter Spaces. Every week, an experienced panel of podcasters and other experts will tackle your podcasting questions. Special guests on the panel today Fuzz Martin, cso at Epic Creative, Aeriel Nissenblatt, founder of Earbuds podcast Collective and community manager at Squadcast FM. Jim Mallard, host of The Mallard Report, Jennifer Ferbo, founder and CEO of Javision Advertising. Tanner Campbell, host of Good Morning podcasters Ken Ramberg and jj Ramberg from Good Pods. We will of course put links to all of our guests and any irrelevant information in the show notes. All right, let's get this already started. Welcome to podcasting Power Error here on June thirteenth. I'm Jeff Townsend, of course, and my good pal, very old Greg is going to help me this evening. That's ridiculous quick calling me that I'm very young Greg. Okay, yeah, very young the profile, but hello, everybody is dang it, I'm gonna have to use my glamour shots from nineteen ninety six. Good, hello everybody. I'm Greg. I run the Indie drop in Network, So most of the things I'll talk about are just things that I've done, so hopefully that helps. Okay, we got Fuzz up here also. Fuzz is, Like, you know, I think the great thing about you, Fuzz is you bring a lot to the table with what you've done with your stuff as far as like, and I've done it before with a podcast the local theme. You know, I really love that, man. So I think it's awesome how you're just in your local area. I know, like you said, you go around and people are like, hey, that's that podcasting guy. Yeah, Hi, everybody. I'm Fuzz Martin. I am a partner and chief strategy officer at a fairly large advertising agency. I'm a former broadcaster. I was on the radio for fifteen years, was a program director and music director and morning show host and all that. And I guess, as Jeff said, I run a very hyper local podcast about a county north of Milwaukee and Wisconsin, and so my wife has podcast on tech tools for teachers. So I produce and co host that, but love the space and kind of work within it with advertising stuff as well. So hello, lovely man, that's a good pitch. I like that, and like you heard before, if you were in here. Ken is here from Good Pods. Ken is a pretty savvy business guy, and you've been involved with a lot of stuff in the past, even before Good Pods Ken, So it's good just to have your you here in case you know somebody you think you can answer some questions well, and I have no doubt you could if you're interested in doing that. So I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I know you. Good Pods has been very supportive of particularly you know, even this Twitter podcast and community. So thanks for what you do. No our pleasure. Thanks thank you as always for including us, and look at where we're trying our hardest. We are you are one hundred percent focused on solving this this riddle of podcast discovery, especially for these, you know, the smaller, the smaller shows that are out there. So that's what we're obsessed with, day in, day out, and we're getting there, getting there one day at a time. Following the grind. Speaking of the grind, this next man, This next man, he's a pretty awesome guy and he knows a lot about podcasting. He's a little controversial, little goes off the track sometimes. Some people love him, some people hate him, but I love him. It's Tanner Campbell. Thanks for joining man. Well, you always give me the best intros, and I appreciate it. I don't know if I'm as controversial as Jim Mallard, who suggested that I run Billboard ads for my podcast and damned if it didn't work. So I think Jim is more controversial than me, and maybe better than I am. Jim, we'll go ahead, let you segue into yourself here. What is it you have a controversy saying? It's like you're part of your pitch, don't it. Yeah, it's a conversational yet controversial, is the tagline of my show. And I go all sorts of fun places talk with legion, politics and money because those are the funders you're not supposed to talk about. And it's important to mention you've had your podcast for like over ten years now. Yeah, you can mention that if you want. I just think about it being last week this week, because I'm doing it again tomorrow, so you know, Old Jim, Old Jim just staying after Uncle Jim. I have an uncle Jim. No. Anyways, thanks Jim for joining us. And Jim is one of the first people I connected with here on Twitter. I think you may have been the first. So I appreciate the relationship we've had over the last well over a year now. It's kind of crazy, all right, So we'll jump into it. Here go. Rum actually jumped up first. I know he's got a lot of He's always willing to learn and ask, you know, ask the right questions and try to get better, which I think this is what this space is all about. I think we all kind of take things away from it, even if we're talking through things. So I look forward to hearing fro him to go room. What's up? What's up? Jeff? How you doing? Bro? Good? Here are you man? I'm doing good shot out of everybody on there, we got good pods. That's that's crazy big. I appreciate y'all for letting me talk. Hey, no problem man, So, so what are you going through with your podcast or anything that you're having struggling with it you would like some advice on or just something that you kind of down in a rut or anything. Sure, I'm interested to learn how to get more download get downloads. Working on that. I have a lot of trouble with that, and trouble finding like sponsors. I got one sponsor so far. I've been doing this for four years total, So the sponsors and getting downloads and getting more followers. So when you're saying followers, you mean for the podcast itself. Tell us about your podcast a little bit, because I know a lot of people up here that are more than willing to help. Just we'll need to know a little bit about what's going on with it. So basically, I wanted to do radio first, but I got into a car accident, so I kind of changed things up and I started podcasting. And so my podcast is basically a little bit about everything you know. I interview music artists, producers, other podcasters, TV hosts, a little bit of everything in different industries. And I have a news show every Tuesday with Lend Besto from NBC Connecticut. We pretty much we talk about things that's going on in Connecticut and around the world, and that's pretty much it. I'll kick I'll kick off. The first question I kind of have for you, Aroun is what who do you think your podcast appeals to? Who are you who are you trying to appeal to? Would you say then I will let others tremen I want to appeel from age range. I want to say twenty five and up. Okay, guys and girls, that's pretty it's pretty broad. Uh. I don't want to do all the talk in here, Tanner yet, go ahead, you can kick it off twenty five and up. There's a lot in up. Do you want people like old Greg listening to the podcast? This is some bullshit. We used to call it twenty five to dead radio, like we're not dead like sixty. So and this is not a question that's meant to poke fun. I genuine I've not listened to your show, so I don't know when you say twenty five to sixty is your content? The kind of thing that twenty five year olds and sixty year olds are generally interested in. Because just speaking from an age demographic, that's very different demographic. Do you think your content would appeal to such a broad age range? Honestly, you're right, probably different episodes because they're all different. It'll be four that crowd. Like if I interview like a younger person, it's like twenty one, it could be like for the twenty five year olds, and then like if you know, my news segments will lead that's for like I want to say, the older people. So one of the things that could make getting more downloads difficult is it's a marketing problem, right, it's partially a discovery problem, partially a marketing problem. But if you're if the people you're trying to reacher are this broad and interest and age and behavior, it makes it very difficult to design your marketing in such a way that you're going after specifically who you want. So if I if I've tried to create an AD for twenty five to thirty five year olds who were single mothers, for example, that's something I'd have a really easy time targeting with my marketing, as opposed to if I said I'd like to try to attract people from twenty five to eighty five who maybe have kids or maybe don't have kids, and like rap and they like classical rock and they look like you see what you see? What happens. The broader the focus gets, the less specific your marketing can get, and the less specific your marketing is, yet the less utility your marketing has. Which sounds like maybe because you said you've been doing this before years and you're having a hard time growing, that might be what's happening. Are you afraid to and I hate to overuse the term because everybody says it all the time, but are you afraid to niche down? Are you afraid to get more specific? No, I'm willing to do whatever you know to grow. Go ahead, Jim, then we can get Jim going here. I know she's does this exact thing for some pretty good clients for a living, So Jim, go ahead, Uncle, Jim, your hands up. I feel like he's about to contra Dick Tanner. No, that's okay, that's good. No, I'm not. Actually, I'm just gonna say it's very hard because I'm in the anti natch game myself, because I've ran the gamut of different topics and all sorts of things. But at the end of the day, I kind of spin back to paranormal as kind of the home base for everything, and that kind of lets me have somewhere to market, even though that isn't necessarily my market. So you've got to kind of maybe it's Connecticut, and that's kind of where when you're trying to draw in sponsors, you've got to have that right hook that sells them whatever you want to sell, and then do the other on top of it. Jim, what did you do when you first started? Was it by far more paranormal? Oh? By far it was. It was paranormal ghost hunters, like exclusively, and then it kind of that's how you built You're following, Yeah, you've kind of built off of there. Now I got you. So you were a little bit more consistent, especially when you first started. Yeah, when I first started, and then as it kind of grew, I kind of took a chance and kind of took a chance, and then well I kind of exploded and kind of got as as you kind of referenced tanner A getting off the tracks, and then kind of came back and now I kind of I don't want to say bounce it out, but it's definitely more more bounced than it was for a while. Gotcha, jin go ahead, And I know this is your area of expertise here talking about marketing, and you know he's got a broad thing that he's trying to do. Now it's challenging. Hello everyone, I'm a little like a little late today, but here I am. Actually I do know go Rom. We actually did an interview while Go Room. Yes we did. He interviewed me in his podcast. And one of the things that you should know that in your podcast, like everyone else is telling you from twenty five to six, iss too broad. Definitely too broad even for advertising. We try to narrow it down into different pieces, So you need to break it down into different type of personas that you're trying to attract. Once you break it down that way, it will be easier for you to make change it on where you want to focus. And once you find that is specific focus, that's what is going to be your niche more specifically. I don't know if that answers your question or if it's something that you have done before. Have you break it down that way so you can narrow it down. Now, I'm gonna definitely try that what you guys are saying, I'm gonna try to narrow it down. Okay, great, Thank you guys for real good advice. Welcome, welcome, And like I said, it doesn't mean you have to stay one hundred percent whatever. Just be sixty five, seventy percent whatever for a while and suck that market down and then get back to sixty fifty five. And if I think, then people go, if you're on that journal, just my two cents. And then of course, as we all age, you will be able to target I mean, pretty soon you'll be able to target Greg and like the eighty five plus. So I was I was about to say that. I'm just looking at your cover art and I would I'm saying, use your cool factor while you're cool, you know, because it leaves quick. The one thing you can do, I'm just kind of buzzing through your episodes here, just while I'm listening to everybody's advice, I think that's perfect. One thing you could do immediately is because you probably have interviews scheduled, you probably have stuff going on, I would think, you know, let's just pick twenty five year old people as a as just like a spot to stick in for the short term and think, with this person coming on my show, what could I ask them and what stories could I tell where a twenty five year old person would relate to it and or care about it, Like I think that'd be the very first switch you do, like just the mindset instead of letting the interview go anywhere it goes, and you know, do what it does. Try to focus it onto something you're whatever you decide on if it's not twenty five, but focus the message for for for those people. If you already have interview scheduled, like just don't don't don't hang up from this and be like that's it, you know, Cancel, cancel, cancel, cancel. I got to get new people. Thank you really appreciate that. Ken or Fuzz. Do you have anything to add to this? I know, I'm I'm assuming can. Most people go on to a podcasting app are more likely to listen to a genre that they went in there to listen to in the first place, So this definitely makes sense what we're hearing for sure. No, No, I think it's been great advice so far. Nothing nothing really to add Buzz Yeah, yeah, I know, I would just say that the mayor mayor mayor mc fuzz rome, how old are you if you don't mind me asking? On twenty nine, twenty nine. Okay, So I work with a number of people in the social media space and what you know, thinking of you know, facebooks for old people now which used to never be, but Facebook's for old people, and you know, Instagram's kind of that mid range and Instagram reels and TikTok is kind of younger, but they're more older, you know, millennial and younger gen X people like me or you know, younger baby boomers like Greg kind of dabbling and such. But the the the difference right now and the way people consume media between a twenty five year old so you're talking almost well that would be gen Z, right, so you're talking somebody in gen Z versus sixty year old is going to be you know, old gen X are pushing young you know, baby boomer. And the way that those four different age ranges in there consume media is completely different, and the things that they care about are completely different. So even like the reason I asked her age was like, I wouldn't try to start a new show myself as a forty three year old geared toward twenty five year olds because I don't I don't speak what they want to hear, and so just making sure that you are you have your finger on the pulse of what they're looking for if you really want to get to that. You know, my daughter's turning eighteen here, she like listens to the Tiny Meat Gang and which is fun. Sorry, what is the name of it? Yeah, tiny, the Tiny Meat Gang That it's a yeah, they're exactly what you're thinking about there. I mean, it's just like better not exactly what I'm thinking that's actually name. But but that's the kind of stuff that they're listening to right now. There's that she's gonna show that she listens to the guy who dresses up like a f and gives advisor some lizard or something and gives advice. Yeah, the guy from Redit Yeah yeah, no, no, that those are two totally different shows. But the kind of the vibe that they give way different than the kind of stuff that I would listen to. But you know, it's so just kind of like understanding your lane is essentially where I'm going, and knowing that it's not just who you're interviewing or what you're asking. It's the style of delivery. It's the style of the you know, the kind of content that we're that we grew up or we've been been accustomed to ingesting. You need to make sure that you're giving them what they want in that regard. So, you know, twenty five year olds typically going to be some more absurd you know, or a tiny meat gang group kind of thing versus you know, like your Mountain's House kind of comedy podcast or something like that. So just really, you know, deliver the way that each generation is expecting to consume. Thank you appreciate that, real, real good advice. Honey, meet gang. Yeah, I remember that one. No, we have a little bit less people than we have the last couple of weeks, which is kind of a good thing because if you have a question, make sure you jump up, or you want to discuss something, you know, request the to be a speaker, because I think we have some good opportunities to deep dive into things a little bit more. With that being said, yeah, thanks Roman for popping up here. We can go to Gary. Now. Tell us about the content you create and some of the challenges you're facing. Can you guys hear me. Yeah, Yeah, we've got you. Yeah, I can hear you. I think seven a hard time with this mic. Yeah, Gary says you're muted. Looking at your bio here it says you're going on. America's got talent, mister Gary, are you there now? In the meantime, if anybody else wants to speak, go ahead and request. I know we have a lot of the regulars in here, mister Gary. No, go ahead, Greg, what are you gonna say? Well, if Gary's ready, let's go to Gary. Gary, are you ready? This is always comical to me because I imagine that the person on the other end is like frantically fumbling with their phone trying to just just panicked, like did I ask to come up on stage? Like what is happening? He requested? He definitely just came off and mute. So Gary, are you ready? Man? Negative ghostrider? The pattern is full. He's trying, but he's not. He's just not there yet. Maybe you get Gary if you leave to come back, leave the space and come back, and I'll get you up when you come back. Man. So, Jeff, I can tell you about an experiment I recently did in the in the dead Space here. Okay, So I've been trying to improve my retention. You know, my audience retention, which I believe is one of the most important stats you can manage. And you know, I hear people complain about pre roll ads, and you know, they don't want to get a bunch of ads when they first click on a on a podcast. So what I did is, for like the last two and a half months, I cut a best clip out of the show, played that first introduced the podcast, and then played my pre roles after I like staged it, like all right, we're gonna, you know, let's go pay some bills and then we're gonna get right into it. It didn't make any difference in my audience retention, Like nothing noticeable. Like I bet if I really crunch the numbers, maybe there'd be like one percent or half a percent or something. But it made a negligible difference. Why do you think that is? I think that podcast audiences are more accommodating for ads than we give them credit for. I agree, anybody else have anything on that. I meant also like podcasting it is. I mean when people said that to begin with, Greg, I was pretty suspect because I feel like the place where you expect to see that stuff, and so it becomes more acceptable is the pre role. I mean, maybe it's because I've been listening to podcasts for a while and creating them for a while. But when I get hit the three ads before the podcast starts, that's less annoying to me than it is like standard. I'm more irritated by the ads in the middle. And that seems to be counter to the advice that mid rolls perform better. I've not actually seen the data that mid rolls perform better. That's the prevailing wisdom from And I'm gonna double down on Tanner's point. There's nothing worse than a mid roll that is placed horribly wrong. Yeah, what do you mean by that, Jim, just elaborate on that a little bit. Well, say, say somebody's mid sentence and it gets interrupted by an advertisement because it was placed at a time like fifteen minutes and it doesn't matter why. They're just slapping that bad boy in and it's horrible, and well, well, I've got the floor and up on a soapbox. I listened to a podcast for about a month ago because I'm like, oh, I had I searched on the Apple Store for a very specific question I had, and I'm like, there it was. This person promoted they had the answer for it, and I'm sure none of us do this, but this lady had a fifteen minute podcast. I'm like, great, I can consume this and get my answer and move out of my life. Well, fifteen minutes later, I felt like she sold me a conference, a book, a leadership program, and something else and did not answer the question. No, that's the point where off an email to this lady. But I did because I realized that it probably would have got posted because I was I'm not going to say the word I was, but you could figure it out. That's exactly the type of review that ends up on Twitter, and then there's a woe is Me thread. I don't understand why anyone hates my podcast. I think that's that's the side effect of programmatic, right is, because you can pick the spots for programmatic gets inserted. But if you do that, if you I know, when I hosted with Megaphone, I could pick those spots. But I mean usually you just kind of pick the spot and let it repeat episode to episode, which isn't great because exactly what Jim just described as a really high probability of happening, and it is extremely irritating. I picked the spot on my stuff every every episode, but I since I v drop every episode, I don't get the luxury of putting in a nice ad pad or whatever they're called. I can never think of the name, but you know, like to ease it in there, which is what what I would do if it was my own content. But since it's not my own content, you know, it's it is abrupt and I and I don't love it. But I think as long as you're producing the value people are, people are pretty accommodating, you know. It would be dope is if the podcast index people could create some kind of name space that you could write into the meta of an MP three like you could you could drag your MP three file into like podcast chapters, for example, to provide all that extra meta. And one of the things you could do is mark the insertion points so that you were kind of working in the reverse order, so that the programmatic platforms looked for that tag as opposed to you having to tell it where it was for every episode on the platform. That'd be kind of cool. I don't know if that's possible, but that'd be pretty cool. I do like how the new buzz Sprout ads have that tone that ramps up before it gets to the to the spot drop, so that it just kind of brings in, so you as a listener know it's coming and it's not that abrupt cut. And that doesn't solve the question we're talking about of where that drops. But you know, I was thinking even if if you're doing it on your own, if you've dropped a tone in there, or some sort of staying music sting, that might help with that transition and also finding it when you're dropping it into you know, if you are able to place in your in your hosting platform where those splices go, that you can easily see where that belongs. I'm still a fan of baking them in. I really am, Like I don't. I feel like every time we try to automate something, we just ultimately degrade its experience and quality just a little bit. And I really don't like the programmatic answer or streaming ad insertion because I feel like there's no way to do it really clean. Yeah, but your earning potential goes way down. Yeah, that's how do you mean? That. So it depends also on the perspective that you're looking at it, because as an advertiser, and if you place the ads, for example, out at the beginning of every then people can actually leave and be like, you know what, this AD's always like in the middle, I'm not going to watch this. But then if you put it in the middle or like after a few minutes, people want to keep watching it because they get caught up with whatever they're listening or whatever they're watching. Instead they find that advertisement in there, and then maybe you can cut their attention. It depends how you look at it. But then at the same time, we keep forgetting that the regular television back in the days, it was the same way when you're watching cable, you watch up you know, like a whatever show that you're watching in there, even the news or anything, and then you got to be caught off in the middle and get those commercials. So it's basically kind of the same idea. That's the way I see it. Yeah, I think that's the basic argument for why midrolls performed better for advertisers. I just hate them, I know, I know, but what can you do? We are in that industry. We need to put it there because we're getting clients on our O pain has to do the same DoD job, So what can you do? Listeners have it so easy. Podcast listeners have it so easy, though. I mean it's the only platform, aside from some YouTube content, where you can if you don't like it, or if you've heard the same ad one hundred billion times, you can just skip ahead. Do you all remember when like putting an ad in your podcast? This is going back to like twenty twelve twenty thirteen, putting an ad in your podcast was like, listeners would absolutely shit a brick over you doing that. You would lose so many listeners over putting ads in. And now people are like, oh, that's are pretty cool. I guess they're funny. Yes, it's just like the super Bowl. What do you watch every time that you watch in the super Bowl, you're watching the commercials and they're epic. If you ask me, like, I'm there just for the commercials. I don't know about you. Hi, I want to add something. My name's Ariel. Thank you for having me. I think the reason super Bowl ads are so awesome is because we treat them like content. They're not Genie. Yeah, and the podcasters who do the best job with their their advertising are the ones that make stories out of the ads, and of course you have to have the flexibility there to be doing host red ads. But a really great example is the podcast Dead Eyes with Connor Ratliffe. He does an amazing job talking about out Casper Mattress, and he tells a personal story, relates it to the overall goal of the show. You're invested in the ad just as you are in the story. Another example is Malcolm Gladwell does an amazing job incorporating story into ads, and these are produced segments. It takes a while to come up with that writing, but it is worth it, and I would bet you that their conversion rates are pretty high. I agree. I think I listened to a lot of Jim Cornett stuff and the ads may go on for like minutes, but it's just personable and you're like, after you hear it, you're like, damn, I stumped you. Ads rock Yeah, yeah, No, I agree. I think when I listened to him, like sometimes on some podcasts they're long when they throw in those stories and all that, but afterwards I am like, damn, I gotta check this out. Definitely makes a difference. So if you want to come up and ask anything about podcasting or content creation or talk about content creation or podcasting, go ahead and request to speak. I know that we have the greatest song ever sung up here. Do you how's it going? And what issues are you facing or what questions do you have or what do you want to talk about? I'm just reaching far the table's greatest greatest song ever sung poorly. That's an important thank you, Dan. Yes, I mean it's a karaoke podcast. So the name is apt H. What do you guys do when something goes horribly sideways and you have to redo a whole bunch of stuff? And I just mean this from an editing standpoint, because that's what I'm doing tonight, is I'm re editing an entire episode because something didn't save to my backup system. I make Painter and Greg fix it. Uh. Well, first of all, if that's not a great host, read ad for recording redundancy right there. I've never heard one. Yeah it was. It was it was the edit that I didn't save. It wasn't the recording. Okay, So yeah, so one of those things is you turn on automatic saving in your doll and if your DoD doesn't have automatic saving, you very get a grown up doll that has automatic saving. Yeah. I don't want I don't want to name it because I love it to death, but it does have the automatic save. I don't know what I did. Did you not save it the first time? No? I think it also saves every time I open it and the transcript, I thought, what what what dow is it? It's descript? Yeah, that should auto save. Yeah, maybe you had a maybe your internet was down. That's right, because it does go that way. It doesn't do a local does it? Also? Damn you for calling to script a doll. I should have been on that faster. You should have. I can't believe that it's got by you. You can. You can yell at me later. It's just because you find me charming Tanner. Yeah, that's true. He's using the greatest dow poorly. Wait, how do I make actually actually that that is pretty accurate. I anything that I do on this on this end I still kind of fumble through. So yeah, the script is the karaoke version of a doll. I think. For for one, you've got to have redundancy built into your recording setup. If you're using. I've actually never recorded directly in the descript but I assume that what are you and your hosts in the co host in the same room. No, everything's entirely remote, so we're recording elsewhere and then importing into descript basically, I mean I didn't lose that much. I just basically lost a lot of formatting for my transcript, and I had to re edit a whole bunch of ums and a whole bunch of crosstalk and things that nobody actually wants to hear. I guess my solution would be, don't use the script. But yeah, I mean, you know what we do when we mess up, as we just do it over, just like you're doing. Yeah, back in the whole days, that's what we had to do. Jim made fun of me for saying back in twenty twelve earlier, because he's been podcasting since nineteen fifty two. But uh, but but if you screwed up back in the old days, man, I mean, you just had to redo the entire damn episode. It was terrible. We'd be recording on like Windows media recorder. I think was the first thing I ever recorded in That's a great question. Though I'm am sure there's a great answer to that. I mean, well, no, in this case, I don't think there is. I mean he's using the script descript is supposed to auto save not only locally but up to the cloud, So that sounds like it's also entirely possible that while I was editing, I had a drink or two and I accidentally deleted it. Who knows, Well, there's the truth comes out. That'll do it. You can't edit and drink, can't outsource your editing, get rid of it again. If they make the mistake, then they have to pay as bad as I am at it. It is kind of one of my favorites. It's like the thing I don't ever want to outsource. I love s sitting here and doing this. You could outsource your drinking. I can't. Peace. No, I've actually enjoyed outsourcing it because I feel like I have more time to focus on the content. You know, so I agree theory older. I think it's made a world of difference for me and even avoiding burnout, like because to me that is I'm not saying I don't enjoy it, but it's a hell of a lot of work when you also want to keep that content quality or you know that is true. We could we could maybe go weekly if we didn't do that, So you know, Jim go ahead. Sorry. I was gonna say, well, you could do what I do and never edit. Letim up here. Yeah sorry. He doesn't care about that because he was the first podcaster ever. That's why what the photographer get it right in the camera, and you don't have to photoshop if you get it right the first time. But I mean, Ariel's right, the first thing you ought to be outsourcing is the editing, especially if you're an efficient editor, if you find yourself making mistakes edit, or if it's just taking up a lot of your time. And I know people who when they first start out and they first it used to be that everyone would just start out with audacity. I feel like that's where most people who are going to be in this room started editing their own podcasts. And I remember I'd have people come to me and be like, so I record my episode. It takes an hour to record, and it takes like two and a half days to edit, and I'd be like, whoa WHOA whoa what and they're like, yeah, you know, getting it perfect and making, you know, getting the eq right. I'm like, do you even know what an equalizer is? And they're like no, I'm like, then, how do you know if you got it perfect? What are you doing to yourself? Why are you like trying to make something perfect when you don't have an understanding of what perfect even is. Outsource that shit as soon as you can. And the price almost isn't even an excuse these days, because between between Eastern Europe, the Philippines and Thailand, you can pay people in those areas something that seems like nothing to you but is like a week's worth of wages to them, and they do a really good job if you can deal with like a one day time difference and some communication challenges from from time to time. But I mean, like you could outsourch your entire month for probably twenty bucks an episode to to Thailand and maybe forty or fifty bucks an episode to the Philippines. It's pretty damn good. It's really affordable. Really selling me on this, Yeah, Greg and Tanner? Did Greg? I know you're talking about the other day. What is that one that's at that fifty dollars mark? This seems to be pretty I mean people seem to be pretty pleased with it. What was that I can't remember the name of it, could be produce your podcast. No, it was like pod machine or something. It was ever the one, the one that was on pod news a bunch lately. Pretty much, if you google pod something, you'll come up with a podcast producer I've heard. I've heard genuinely good things from somebody who switched to pod machine after podcasts. So yeah, it seems to be pretty affordable and people are saying good things about it, So that might be one for people listening to consider if they're interested. Bear, you requested the mic, Bear marketing? What's going on? Hi? How are you good? So? What does it take to have a podcast patience? Yeah? Or are you interested in starting one? Maybe? I don't know. I have a lot to talk about, But I don't think I have a good voice. Like the greatest song ever sung. I mean that guy's got a voice for podcasting. I don't have a voice for podcasts. And and I managed to get through every week. Yeah, yeah, I do have I do have a face for it as well. I would disagree with you here, Bear, I think you have a I think you have an interesting voice. Sounds sounds better than probably half of ours. Can I can I hit you with my questions? Bear? Go ahead hit it first up. If somebody could find my tweet on this, that would be great. I have a list of I don't know forty or so questions you said you should ask yourself when you're at this stage. First is why why do you want to make a podcast? What is your goal? Do you want to have a co host? Is it going to be weekly? Are you going to outsource your music? Are you going to outsource your editing? I could go on all day. There are a ton of questions to ask yourself, but I think the most important one is why a podcast over a blog? Why a podcast over a YouTube channel? Why a podcast over not having a podcast at all? Tank? Hit it al? You don't have You don't have to answer those no, no, I mean okay, so hold on a second. Well over a blog because I don't want to write? Yeah, writing sucks? Over over a YouTube video? I don't know. I just want to be in my underwear. And what was the other question? Are you going to have a co host? Is it going to be weekly? Is it going to be I don't know? Edited? All these questions, and you know they don't have to be answered now, but just down the line, you know, considerations for you. I think a co host would be good. What would your podcast be about? There sort of you unique concept. I just I want to make stupid people less stupid. Ah, this is America. That is a unique concept. How would you go about doing that? I don't know. I mean normally when I try to get blocked and dejected from the from the spaces. So I would have to think of something that people would want to listen to. I mean, I think that people don't resist change, they just resist being changed. I would recommend if you're thinking about this, I would map out, like what would your first twenty six episodes be, what would what would the topic be for those episodes? Write it all down? I do mine on a whiteboard, but you could write, you know, type it out, write it out whatever you want. I know he said you don't like writing, but for this, for this case, you'll want to. And then just determine, like does this all fit into what you would consider a show? Do they all these topics fit into what you consider a show? And then and then structure something around it or or look at your list and say now that sounds like too much work, and then bail. It's one of those two, you know, like you just yeah, I'd rather just pay someone to do everything for me and just literally just sit there and have to talk, bring the audience, bring everything. I mean, just want the easy button. I also, you could consider testing out the concept on TikTok or something like that. Like it's a much smaller lift and it doesn't have to be as edited on TikTok. So come up with one of your making stupid people less stupid rants, or maybe it's an interview, whatever it is, make a sixty second to three minute video on it. See if the concept takes off, see if people are interested in the concept. You could even do the same just by like being a guest on a podcast and seeing if people are and then ask the podcast host if they got great feedback from your episode. You know, do people like this shpiel, this this shtick that you're doing. Sorry for all the yish, It's okay, I don't mind a bistle Yiddish now. I just I don't want the video because I think that people would be able to see my face would be you know, I don't I think they would be very condescending face. I think that you don't even necessarily need to do face on TikTok, Like, there's other ways to do it. You could do audiograms. But the only reason I say this is because I think a lot of people start podcasts and think that it's going to take off, which is why I'm asking you so many questions. It's, you know, I want you to be prepared that it's a lot of work and you might not see you turn right away, which is why fuzz Martin suggested writing out your season and having a plan, and within that plan, building in some marketing and some actually, how am I going to reach people into it so that you're not just making it and then nobody's coming to your show? So return not like financial return, but like even just people, you know, whatever you want from it. Yeah, exactly, Hey Bear, can you give me an example. I promise there's a point. No, no, no, don't do that one of the why not I'm not setting them up? I'm interested. So I have podcasting, I'm curious. Yeah, yeah, no, what's like one of the things that like give us a taste, what's one of the things that might make a stupid person less stupid. I'm trying to envision the format in my head, why do you want to have me on their podcast? I'm trying to envision like your approach to it. Well, I mean, he just said, is another probably a better way to go about it in the early days to try to be on other people's podcast. But try to answer the question, though, bear because the answer to that question might be asked for some of us depending on you know what you say right now, because some of us have shows where that might work and some of us don't. Mhmm. I think Seinfeld in a podcast format, so like you would do it. You would do a hole back and forth like, oh, think about this thing that happened, and then do a scene. I'm worried about getting my idea stole. It sounds like too much work. There's a podcast you should listen to. It's called Dumb People with Terrible Ideas. It is truly fantastic. That might be me. It is a truly fantastic editing experience, Like just the whole listening experience is great. The guy is a super deep voice, he's he does a great job with production work. But it's kind of got that flavor of what you're talking about right now, and don't steal his his deal. But if you listen to the format of his show and the kind of topics that he touches on, that might be something that fits in line. It might give you some some structure or a skeleton of what your potential show might look like. And what about just being a professional guest, like just touring the podcast scene, you got to have something really yeah, So I think the best thing for you to do bear to get started in like what is the podcast scene, is get subscribed. This is my spield that I always do, so get ready and sorry for the folks who have heard it a million times. Subscribe to all the podcast newsletters out there, both podcast recommendation newsletters and podcast industry newsletters. You'll learn what other podcasts are out there so that you can find out which shows you might want to pitch yourself to be a guest on. And there's also some directories that you'll learn about, like podcast gets dot com or podmatch dot io I think it's io, or if you search the phrase be a podcast guest, you'll find tons of places where you can sign up, usually for free, to be on a database that people will look for guests and they might be looking exactly for you. So I would just subscribe to all those newsletters so that you are plugged into the space, so that you know what's going on and then you can see how to insert yourself. Are there any podcast consultants or you're talking podcast podcast agents? Yeah, Ariel is one, I'm one. There are a lot of us, So I could just hire one of you to get me on podcasts. Oh well technically yeah, but not. You know, you have to see you have to find the right the right fit for you. You have to make sure that the person that you're hiring has connections in the space that you want to be a guest on. So it sounds like you want to be on comedy shows, so you would look for somebody who has inroads in the podcast comedy scene and knows you well enough that they could pitch you and wants to pitch you. So lots of different things to consider. So I should interview with podcast agents. Yeah, I think you should find I think you should first and foremost learn about the podcast scene, learn who's doing what, and find out how you want to be kind of seated among those people and those entities and then from there maybe you want to hire somebody. Maybe you can do it yourself. That is definitely a possibility is making lists on your own. There's some really great tools where you can find podcasts that you might want to be on. One of them is reephonic dot com. You can search for podcasts and if you go to refonic dot com slash graph you can see podcasts that are in similar veins and they have this really cool interactive web feature, so you can search like your favorite comedy podcasts and then see what other podcasts are listed nearby. So that might be a really great way to pitch yourself to be a guest on shows. Do you cutting out beer? Do you have a podcast? Most of the people here do. Yeah, So just take for example, the one person is speaking now Ariel, what's what's your podcast? It's a podcast recommendation podcast. It's a podcast recommendation podcast. Sure is, so people listen to your podcast to find out what type of podcasts they'd be interested in listening to. That is both yeah, but bear one of the things you're missing maybe because you don't because you're not steeped in the space, because you're just starting. So of course that's the case. I don't even know if I'm even just starting. Yeah. One of the one of the issues in podcasting is that just discovery is difficult to such an extent that Ariel would have a popular show aiding people in discovering interesting shows to listen to. It's actually a really good show Ariel. By the way, thanks, she's like like like someone who finds you a job. Sure, she was like a matchmaker that matches people with their interests of what shows they should be listening to. Is there a fee for that? Is that subscription based? What to get? No? Most podcasts are free, some have some content behind paywalls. My podcast you can get at earbuds dot audio if you're interested. Mostly it's a podcast recommendation newsletter that has an accompanying podcast. I'm actually about to record it once we hang up here. But yeah, there's a lot going on there, and there's a list in order to get your podcast recommendations featured there. Each week of the newsletter is curated by a different person, and anyone can curate a list. But right now we're booked out until September, which is good and bad. But ultimately the goal is to you know, find people their next favorite podcasts. Hey, thanks Bart, We appreciate you sparking this good conversation. We have a couple of people waiting to hop up here and get to is so appreciate your time, Beart. Thanks. Podcasting Power Hour is part of Indie drop in network. If you are a podcaster looking to grow your listeners, check out indie drop in dot com. Indie drop in is always free and we have opportunities right now for comedy, true crime, scary and paranormal podcasts. Just go to Indie droppin dot com to learn more. Eighties and Nineties you are up next, Thank you for waiting patiently. Thanks Jeff, no problem bear. Eighties and nineties are you there? Hey? You price carried them off? Greg, you're born? Maybe you have to call them by their full name. The Eighties and nineties dot com? Are you here? Oh? Maybe? All right? The last call for eighties and nineties. All right, let's go to jacking around jack Ingram. How are you? I'm good? How are you doing good? Is this the jack Ingram? The well, this isn't the jack Ingram. That guy I just left in Austin, just got back from taping an episode with him, and just picked up another podcast, find a Nashville Tomorrow for a big songwriter there we're going to do and I was so chartable, so we've been fortunate enough to wear I produced check show. Obviously, I'm not checking them chartable, so we consistently rank under the music commentary. But I'm looking at these charitable rankings. I'm just like, look out of the millions of hundreds of thousands podcasts out there, there's no way we're consistently ranking top twenty, thirty, forty. You know what I'm saying, Like, how does that work? It comes to chargeable, you probably are charitable, does a lot of work to make sure that their rankings reflect reality. And if that's where you're charting, if you want to check against it, you could use Rio mentioned Refonic a minute ago at refonic dot com and they also have their own charting system, which I don't believe is just a mirror copy of chartable, So if you wanted to compare it to someone else who's collecting that data. But here's the thing, Jack Ingram's producer Matt Matt. Most podcasts are so abysmal at marketing themselves, and frankly most podcasts are terribly underproduced from a quality perspective standpoint, that it is probably really likely that you're ranking in the top forty of the music category. And to reinforce that a little bit, I have a stoicism podcast called Practical Stoicism. I have marketed it never, not once, except for just three days ago. I put it on a billboard, which is the first marketing I've ever done for it, and it is already in the top twenty of philosophy podcasts. Uh, And I've never marketed it. So if your podcast is good and you have interesting guests, if that's relevant, If your podcast is good and you're decent at marketing, it's pretty easy to crack the top one hundred in any subcategory. It's a little bit more challenging to crack the top one hundred of primary categories, but you can do it. It's easier than people think. That's what We've cracked the top forty. I think it's under the music category. We've talked we've created the top forty twice. Yeah, that's that's probably real. I mean, if charterable says it's real, it's real. Well, which which list is that? Because Charterable tracks, Apple, Spotify, Stitcher. That's what's interesting. So would never come up on Spotify, We haven't, but it's always Apple, Cut Music Commentary and Apple Music. Yeah we're if you're if Chartable is showing you ranked on Apple, they just pull that directly from Apple. So that's real. The the Chartble also has their own rankers, which are only podcasts that use Chartable the reach, the reach and they have a lunch. I have no idea what that's it's unique users. So it's what they believe unique users are. So reach is unique people. Got it? So like when you're two thousand and five hundred and within x Apple podcasts, that that's what that means. Yeah, so they so, so if you're if you're number ten in their top one hundred reach, you have more individual unique likely IP addresses or device IDs than whoever is number eleven? Got it? Thank you? Sorry? Because I'm on Chartable daily and you try to find out it's difficult to find out with what reality you got to email them and make a friend over there and talk. I mean, Tanner and I has gone have gone through this for advertising stuff like you really have to dig lest but not least for all you podcasters out there, when do you see when do you see I guess when you really get a podcast that starts taking off? You know, the hockey stick effect. Do you wake up one day and it's like, holy crap, what's going on? Or do you see that happen over a period of weeks or or is there really not a hockey stick effect? Per se? Is this is so funny because you say your name is Matt, Yes, Matt, Matt. I don't think you realized that you probably have more listeners than anyone in this room. I don't know, man, I look and I and god, I mean, I don't I'm coming from complete ignorance. That might be. That might be, but it is also probably also true. If you're in the time forty of music in the primary music category, you likely have a more successful podcast than anyone in this room. Right. It takes a lot. I mean that was the individual that was talking beforehand. It just takes so much time. And it's so because we do ours on video too. We use the video element for marketing purposes. But it is a lot of time. And a good indicator is there is a producer on the show. Yeah, the producer is dumb enough to put up the two artists. If a podcast makes enough money to be able to pay staff, it's a big it's a big show. Well there's that's there's a caveat. So let's just put it like this. I've got a producers two shows, but also have a also have a paycheck job too. I mean, it's it's it's excuse me, it's it's infancy. But man, you know there's some investment involved in time more so than anything. One hundred dollars to get awesome to day back so for gas alone. So yeah, it's not making money per se. So it's a slow burn, but we'll get there eventually. And it's fun and these artists are doing it out of a passion project. I'm doing it to hopefully make a living from it exclusively, but these artists really enjoy interviewing their friends. And hey, Matt, can I ask a question real quick? Yeah? Go ahead? How many downloads are you get in per episode? The last episode h for Jack's we got in the first thirty days about forty five hundred. And it doesn't matter who our next guest is. We're about to start releasing episodes again. Jack had to take a little vacation for thirty plus days, so we had to take a We're about to he's about to announce that on his next episode of Why we had to dis why he had to disappear for a few months, and that episode will get more downloads. I could be you could be a guest on Jack's next episode. Will always consistently getting more downloads. So we're at the point now it doesn't really matter who the guest is, so long as I can get Jack to be consistent. Yeah, this is actually that's interesting. This tracks because you and I are in our respective categories. Although philosophy is a subcategory of society and culture, so you're but I don't think music has subcategories. Maybe that's why. But you and I are both we ranked the same in our perspective categories, and forty five hundred is about what I get, okay, in a thirty day period, a little less than that, maybe four thousand, So that's interesting. Yeah, And so it's just fascinating to hear y'all feedback, and I appreciate all the responses because some lot of information I've researched endlessly on the internet, especially when it comes to chartable and even about the exponential growth, I just can't find it. Well, I'll tell you something real quick, Matt, and I'll get some collapse up here. I know from some of my co hosts and host speakers there are a lot of people on the internet given advice, goddamn business, given advice on the internet. You know what is hard to thort through the bas And I really enjoyed the podcast movement or the Yeah podcast. We're going to be in Dallas. It was Nashville last year, Dallas this year, and that's really was very beneficial for me to attend last year, but that was really the infancy of it, and this year is a little bit different. Well, so we'll see in Dallas because I think a lot of us will be there. Go ahead, Greg, so let's talk. Let's talk a little bit about the question, right real quick. So is there a hockey stick phenomenon? I would say that I think it does exist, But like any sort of media, you know, it's like when lightning strikes, it has not happened to me. Like this is my fourth or fifth show, I've got four or five. I've got four current shows and I've shut down two shows, six shows in total. And I've had the claw for every listener that I've ever gotten. And I know that some people, you know, have easier experiences, you know, they you know, and then they'll probably get on here and go, oh, you got to do is just make great content and the listeners will find you. Right, they'll say something like that, which to me drives me absolutely crazy. But but yeah. The the other thing to keep in mind is that the Apple podcast rancor has nothing to do with downloads. So what does that have to do with That's a million dollar questions. It's it's follows and you know, Aeriel might remember this better than me, but it's it's follows in a certain time period and listens. Is it listens real time listens or no? It's retention. Yeah, it's how many people come back, It's what percentage of completion an episode gets it? And then new followers, how many new people are following? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So downloads, you know, you might be there might be some corel correlations there, but it's not actual number of downloads. It's a big complicated formula. Is what I hear you say? Yes? And the last thing, by the way, please never everyone in this room don't ever go to listen notes and think you're in the top three percent of podcasts. All right, stop doing that good advice, thank you and putting it into your decks. Right yeah, well, hey, you know what, I get it when they put it into the deck there, me too, So do whatever you need. Social proof is great. We love we love concrete numbers. I appreciate the feedbacker, I really do, and I'll I'm certainly gonna mark podcasting power Hour. It's fantastic. I appreciate all the feedbacker, really do. And Matt, just just for the record, I interviewed Jack on the radio in like two thousand and seven or eight or nine. Which station? It was a WBWI out of the Milwaukee that was probably there when he set the get Us Book of World records the most regular interviews in twenty four hours, I very well could have been it was. It was, Yeah, that was if we were just talking about that a few weeks ago, twenty four hours, Well, then I guess you won't remember me. I'll keep up the good work, man, that's great, man. What reradio station were you with again? It was DOUBBWDI It's in the Milwaukee market. And I left there like eleven years ago, so it's been a long time. I'll tell you that's funny. Yeah, thanks, thanks for the feedback. I really do appreciate it. Guess you were just used fuzz. I'm so sorry. I know just a number I realized I was. He was going for reach, not for quality. He is a mayor. Mcfuzz to you, Greg, that's great, No thanks, though. I think that a lot of us have had that, like I know for me, like there's a lot of all ship moments, but it is really like the retention parts that it's difficult, right. I think we've all had episodes that I know I've had a guest on that had a podcast then in the Apple Top five. Overall, I full shit ton, but the challenge really is trying to get those people to come back, particularly when you do like a podcast like mind. It's a lot of interviews and I think we've all had those moments though, but it is a challenge keeping it going. Speaking of keeping it going ashers, thank you for waiting. What's going on? Yeah? Thank you? Yeah, I had a kind of a strange question. You know. I have two podcasts, one on Wednesday's We Talk Weird and the other Monster Radio. Now, I didn't start podcasting because I necessarily wanted to be a podcaster. I did it because in my line of work, I really don't have a choice but to create content. But you know, I'm kind of really trying to focus on melding those two worlds together and what I've wanted to do recently. The show's done awesome. Both shows do really well, and I mean, I know it's just kind of a slow crawl to continue to grow, and it will. How do you ask people to come on their shows. I've got a couple of really big shows in mind that i'd really like to go on. But you know, I know when people approach me and ask me to come on my show, it kind of seems desperate and unprofessional. And I feel like if I were to make a call out on social media like hey, book me, I'm really important, it kind of comes off as really coucky. So how do I do that in a nice way? Does anybody have any tips on that? Yes, I believe I had to unmut laugh, I would have somebody pitch on your behalf. Do you have a co host? Yeah? I do actually, and he's a wonderful hype man, Yeah, I would. I would write your own letter where you explain in third person, you know, your bio, your background. I can say you an example of a pitch letter that I send out to on behalf of some of the people that I work with when I'm trying to get them on podcasts. But basically what I do sounds like you already have a list of shows that you would love to be on. That's half the battle, and then it's about knowing enough about those shows to figure out where you could plug in in the best way possible. So maybe it's a full on guesting experience, but maybe it's just plugging in for a segment of the show. Maybe it's starting out with promo swaps and then going to a full guest swap situation. I think often they do sound desperate because unfortunately, and it shouldn't be this way, but it's kind of desperate to be like, Hello, I think I'd be the perfect guest to be on your show. I love your show so much. I would love to be a guest. But if you have your co hosts, say hey, I'm pitching on I want to tell you about somebody amazing that I work with. She loves your show. I think she'd be a great asset. Here's what she can talk about that that's a ringing endorsement, and that can really be a great way to get yourself in front of these people's eyes, and then they can consider further how you might best be able to plug in. Jim, go ahead, you've got your hand up. I think Greatest was next, Greatest myself first. I'm just I'm just gonna yeah, I'm just going to echo Aeriel Tanner will tell you that I'm very cagy about what I do outside of podcasting because I keep my work life and this life separate. But I've been in sales and marketing for twenty plus years and Ariel hit like the real key on networking referral, referral, referral, and when you're networking, always go into it with the mindset not what they can do for you, but what you can do for them. So the more people you know, the more people you know by proxy. As long as you are you know, keeping everyone's best interest at heart, you'll get results back. I'm going to piggyback off his point and say who shows do you want to be on? Because I'm like the paranormal person around here. I love you specifically want my next goal of coast to coast. And then I'll also just add something that I've found to be really helpful when pitching for anything, not just pitching guests, but also pitching for podcasts to be featured in podcast listening apps or podcasts to be featured in newsletters, is before you even send your official pitch, send a pre pitch. Get them warmed up by saying, Hey, I love your show. How do you typically like to receive pitches for your show? And then they can right back to you and let them know exactly the template for how you should be reaching out, and you've already warmed yourself up to them so that the next time that you show up in their inbox, they've seen your email address already. And Jim, I feel like you were about to try to do some matchup maker stuff there were you. I can help her, that's for sure. Yeah, you guys are in the same space, all right, Yeah, close enough. Well I've had George, so I can help her. And hey, Ariel, would you would you work with somebody like Astris because I know you do some of this I do. My slate is completely full of right now, but it's definitely worth for us to d M and chat. Yeah, just one other piece from a public relations and pitching standpoint, and Aeriel, everything you said, I was clapping and giving thumbs up here in my basement, so I don't wake up the child. But the all podcasters are in their basement. Okay, perfect, all right, good, well, all the same space. I would also recommend not not pitching yourself as a podcaster, but pitching yourself as a subject matter expert. Yes, very much. If you pitch yourself as a podcaster. It goes back to that point that and Greatest was making about the you know what, what are you offering them? If you're offering them, If you're offering yourself as a subject matter expert, you are beneficial to them. If you're offering yourself as a podcaster, it sounds like it's benefiting you to have to be on their show. So I have if you're having somebody else pitch for you, or if you're pitching yourself, I am an expert in the space, in this paranormal space, here's what I can offer you. Here are some of my credentials, and this is why I would make a great guest in your show. Essentially, well, I'm reading your bio Ashers, and you could be like, hey, I'm Ashers, I'm a cryptozoologist and I'm a full time witch. Like that's that's a great pitch. I take that. Speaking of which, see what I did there, Ashers reach out to me because I have a show that features paranormal and scary type shows. And then if you look through that show, which every single week there is a independent creator being featured, and any of those shows look interesting to you, I can, I can. I'll connect you via email and I'll just I'll break the ice for you. So you know, maybe I can get you a couple of listeners and and get you on a couple of shows. So maybe between Jim and I and we can hype you up. Yeah. I love all of these ideas. It's been hard because you know, I you know, I get a little frustrated because people know what I do because I have a podcasts and again that wasn't necessarily what I set up to do it and it start this to become a podcaster. And while it's silly that I have no issue booking like actual physical events, I really struggle on this virtual space, and I think that that's you know, I agree with pitching what I actually do as o post of the show. People will come to the show because of what I do. You know, essentially I threw that in there head. I do this, but also I have this show. We'll listen to it. I wanted to do well because at the end of the day, I want to make money. But you know, I agree with all of this. I'll definitely get a hold of you guys. There's a fundamental difference to networking and such like that in a digital space versus an in person space, and I'm glad that you brought that up. Hold on, can we just recognize for a minute here that we have a podcast who wants to make money? And thank god, thank god. I'll just further out there you mentioned earlier, looking desperate, don't throw it out there in social media connected with these people via email or LinkedIn or somewhere in the back channel. Don't go out just hoarding, going to get them via social media straight out to shoot. It's not going to work, although there are exceptions to that. But I think I think for this type of expertise, I think your best bet is a nice tailored email campaign where somebody sends it on your behalf. One way to do that would be to make up an email address and pitch yourself, but you know, just be from somebody else. That is definitely a thing, but I would just have your co host do it. Ariel, do you work at listen Notes? Did they do that? No? No, No, that just seems like very sneaky. Are you a cash? I mean, do you know why? I know that there's a new podcast that just came out that's telling a fiction version of the fact that of this kind of well known thing that happens in the female startup space, which is that often they don't get taken seriously unless they have a male co founder, so they'll often make up fake male co founders. So it's a real thing that's fucking terrible. What's the name of that podcast? Let me find out. I will tell you in just a second. Okay. It's like, if you're going to write romance novels, you need a female sounding pen name. Are you writing romance novels? Correct, you would never know. I'm d dB Anderson. I think it's called co Founder Perfect. I'm going to listen to that. Yeah, it's I listened to the trailer. It's amazing. Back to you, Greg Arena. No, no, that's I don't know anything else. I said everything I want to say. Yeah, it's from REALM. If you know them co founder, the co founder, Tanner, you can start a service for that co founder as a service. He can do it on discord. You know. That is some shit I would do. And you just gave me an idea. That's terrible. Hey, outsource your required male co founder to me. I'll write some emails. You could take advantage of the system while simultaneously being outraged that you can. Yes, yes, right, okay, but if you do that, you have to make sure to donate to women's rights organizations. And that's all the money. The aerials over there punching the sky. Yeah, Tanner, what were we doing without you? Man? Now that was a great conversation. Thanks. As we have one more and like I said, we're doing this every Monday, nine pm Eastern. This is great. We're gonna have time for one more here, and I know you've been waiting patiently, your little bride. Go ahead. Okay, good morning everyone. Oh whatever it might be at your time zone. Okay, So I just have two questions basically to ask, and the first one is do you actually need a social media presence for you to actually excel in podcasting? And the second one is that is it consistency or content that actually like makes you stand out in podcasting? So the questions are do you need social media and is consistency the thing that really matters? Exactly? Consistency or content? Which one don matters? I'll let somebody else start, and you want to go ahead and start just in general, I mean outside of podcast and then we can keep that into podcasting. Yeah. Sure. First of all, yes, you need to have an online presence on social media. Is not just for podcastings, for every single type of run or business. That's a must. Like anything can happen, and if you don't have an online presence now there is no one can actually find you. And you can use it to promote using different type of content. And when it comes to the second question you set about consistency and the type of content, Well, consistency can be either that a schedule that you are consistent, consistent off right, that you can know that you can manage, a schedule that you know that you're comfortable with, and that you're not going to cheat on or that you're not going to feel overwhelmed or anything like that. So it depends on how you see what is consistency and the type of content that you're looking at or that you're going to be sharing that it must be something that you are one hundred percent sure that you want to share it and that you want to promoted, that you want to tell stories, that you want to tell testimonials that you want to share, like different type of tips and advices, depending on what kind of your goals that are you going to have on your social media. It's something that can actually help you out to promote your if in this case is that you're trying to promote your podcast organically, you can reach out to different type of audiences. They can help you out to create even more content and you can take it from there. But again, like I don't like to point it out on something that is too consistent because a lot of people keep saying consistencies like for you to show up every single day, which it not necessarily has to be the case for some people that are really successful on social media, not all of them are there every single day. And it's something that you have to manage that can work for you and that you're feel comfortable with. That's my opinion, and I'm always happy to When it comes to starting your first podcast, I'm a big proponent of having it be a lot of people think they have to start with something that's an hour long and it's got to be every week. But I'm really big on encouraging people to approach podcasting as a thirty minute endeavor or less, and that they should probably schedule it once every other week, so you're giving yourself two weeks per episode. Because it sucks to sign up for a level a level of burden and responsibility that you find out later you can't actually maintain. It's easier to sign up for a lesser burden and find out as you get better at it that you can handle more and you can then add more to it. So I'm a big fan of just starting with a lightlift. I think Ariel actually said that earlier in regards to something different. Start with a lightlift, Get comfortable, get competent, find yourself in it, and then if you want to get you know, if you want to go weekly or you want to go twice a week or something, work yourself, work yourself up to that. What do you think, Liz, Hey, there we go. Yeah, yeah, you know what I don't. I'm not quite sure at the moment. I just had some alarms going off on the basements. But I just ran over to oh no, you ever get that get that pump run and it was yeah. So I think Ariel had some some comments. I've got some social media thoughts. I just did a presentation on your exact question. So if you go to my timeline and scroll down a bit, it's with podcast Movement University. I'll try to find the tweet, and I think, uh, Jeff, if you find this tweet, I think you can post it in here to look at. But my answer about social media is yes, I think you need to be on social media. You do not need to be on all social platforms all the time. You don't need to spend that much time on social media. My advice is to grab handles across all social medias and then figure out where you actually want to spend your time on social media. That doesn't mean you know where your listeners are, but it's also where do you actually want to be spending your time Because you're going to be spending a lot of time hopefully you know, interacting with listeners, thinking about you know, if you want to find guests, if you want to swap with other people on social media. So if it's Twitter, great, it looks like you already spend some time on Twitter. But if you don't like making TikTok content, you don't have to be on TikTok. Unfortunately, it's very hard to give blanket advice when I don't know when generally speaking, when we don't know your what your podcast is about and where you like to spend your time, and you know who your audience is. And I think that's a big part of it. Is like, if your audience is a business leaning audience, LinkedIn is a great place to be. If your audience is is a younger generation, TikTok or Instagram is a great place to be. Go ahead, fuzz I was just going to go piggyback exactly what you were saying. Regarding the business side of it. I do have a client who they make backup battery power systems. They have zero social media presence, but they have a very very strong email list and they've got tons of downloads each month and people opening the emails and clicking on the podcast episodes because they're an expert in their space. They have a big email list, but they're not doing social media because their clients and their potential customers aren't there for work purposes. So I would just say, you're going to need something if it's going to be so if it's you know, if your audience is on social media and they ingust social media a ton, then yeah, you're gonna need a social media presence. But if you already have lists built up, or you know, if it's a local group of people in your area that you can reach in a different way that maybe you don't but you know, in twenty twenty two, likely you most likely do. And it doesn't need to be every platform, but it's going to need to be the one that your listeners that you want to reach use the most. And I want to I want to set JJ up here because I know she's dying to come off the mic to weigh in on this. The reason you need this to be on social in some capacity is because podcasting is a creative medium. Twitter is a platform, Facebook's a platform. TikTok is both a creative medium and a and a and a platform, and on platforms it's possible to discover things, but mediums themselves don't have built in discoverability. So podcasting doesn't have a Twitter, it doesn't have a Facebook, it doesn't have a TikTok. There's no such thing as a scrollable TikTok for podcasting until until Good Pods showed up on the screen, which I know JJ is probably gonna want to talk about, so go ahead you. Thank you Danner. Everyone wasn't expecting that build up, but hi everyone, it's so great to be here. Thanks Jeff and Greg for everyone for doing this. I just wanted to say, well, I mean a lot of you already know what Good Pods is. It is basically social media for podcasting, right where you follow your friends to see what they're listening to, which is a discoverability place. And we find a lot of people you know, are on our feed see what their friends are listening to and then listen to it. So it's a great way to find podcasts and as a podcast, find listeners. But more than a commercial for us, which I'm of course always happy to do. But I just wanted to tell you that I've done a ton of research about where people find out about podcasts, right, and and word of mouth is the biggest one. And so if you think about it right, social media is a way to find out about things. But if you don't already have a big presence on social media, to Ariel's point, you're going to be spending a lot of time building up that presence and then hoping that some percentage of that presence is already is also podcast listeners, right, so, and and to the point before, it is great to have some presence on social media for building your own brand, but I wouldn't necessarily assume that that is all going to translate to podcast listens. And so if you're just thinking about podcast listens, you want to get to people when they are ready. You want to get to listeners, and so I would suggest doing things like finding other podcasters who are targeting audiences similar to yours and then doing swaps on their podcasting or you know, in social media if you have an audience already, or on good pods where you can both listen to each other's shows and share with your audience. But I think you have to think about if you're going after podcast listens, getting podcast listeners and getting them when they're ready to listen. Lovely anybody else wanting to add to that, never doubt the power of TikTok. I had no idea I would say this six months ago. But if you have a video element, I spend the vast majority of my time on tiktokk first Facebook and Instagram, which I didn't think i'd say that, probably to a fault, but I didn't think i'd say that six months ago, and I launched launched the TikTok channel. But TikTok is like everybody's on TikTok. The vast majority of everybody doesn't want to admit. Admitted. You've got your hand up, go ahead, it was your question. After all, you don't have to raise your hand. You can just go for it, Okay. So I wanted to answer Arrow's question. She asked me, what's my podcast was about? So is your family, mental health, relationship and then a shown kind of podcast as that just covers all of those things. Yeah, that's what my podcast about. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing. I think it's helpful for me personally when trying to learn things about community spaces or when trying to plug into a creative space is to know what mistakes people have made before me. And I think a big mistake that a lot of podcasters make is is only following other podcaststers on Soya. One thing that you need to make sure to do is, yes, follow all the people who are here, because these people are going to tell you what to stay on top of the in the podcast space, what trends you should be responding to. Maybe there's opportunities to pitch yourself to good pods things like that. But you also need to make sure that you are following influencers in the family, addiction, all those different spaces. I know it's weird to say an addiction influencer, but there are definitely people who are who are talking about thought leadership when it comes to addiction and to family interships and things like that, and you want to be following those people so that you have fodder to tweet about or to or to post on Instagram about, or to respond to. So like, what I spend a lot of time doing is being on Twitter, reading tweets and then seeing how I'm going to respond to those tweets in order to continue to build myself up as a person who knows things about the podcast space. So I happen to work in podcasting, so it makes sense for me to follow podcasters constantly, and podcast companies and softwares and things like that. But if you if you have a podcast about beluga whales, this is my example. Forever, I'm going to want to make sure that I'm following podcasts. I'm gonna i want to make sure that I'm following podcasts in the beluga whales slash marine biology space, but also influencers who have nothing to do with podcasts. This sounds familiar. It should Did I really need a new thing? It's always beluga whales for me? You can. I sometimes do Mitochandria for some reason, and I don't know about it. It's the powerhouse of the cell. There is just a middle schooler we I think this week we are sending a group of our social media team members down a path of setting up a list of potential constipation influencers that we can use for a particular brand that we're working with. So and you know, we will end up hiring these people for a lot of money to promote a certain product. But the yeah, so there's a there's a niche for everyone and you can you know, just again, yeah, follow those people, whether it's the guyles mitochondria or the patient. So fus, I have a name, I have a question before before we can go any further. Yeah, if they cure themselves, are they out of a job or is this like a post consul thing, like if you cure yourself because they're okay, because I learned too much about this stuff. There are thirty three million a mare Mricans who suffer and take medicine for constipation every day. And if you are the one who gets yourself out of that group, then you can then you have you're not even out of the group. Then you're like kind of the the preacher, right, like this is how I did it. It's like the it's like the weight loss person. Yes, yes, yes exactly. So imagine you wake up every day. Today's not today tomorrow. This is annoying, as like listening to vegans to tell you they're a vegan. You know what, though, these people are suffering from a legitimate ailment and it's not it's not by choice. None of them chose to be constipated, and their life sucks because of it. So let's have some empathy guys. But also it's also funny to talk about poop. So so you're saying that when I put that in my college roommates coffee back in the day, that that isn't cool. No, you could have launched his career. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, we're actually not paying him five thousand dollars a month to promote a product while dancing. So oh well, hey, we're a little bit over over like a half an hour. But I made the comment earlier that it was a smaller group, but we've maintained well over fifty since we just got into it. This has been great. We're gonna be doing this every week Mondays at nine pm Eastern, but we will go through our usual philosophical closing thoughts for the evening. I will kick it off and just say that I think it's important that we all participate in things like this because it's there's always room for all of us to learn and grow. And I know every time I do one of these, I certainly learn a lot. Never be afraid to keep learning. That's my thoughts, Greg, you're next. I have learned today a very important fact that Mayor mcfuzz and I are the same age. Oh, no, I do. When you said nineteen ninety six, I'm like, oh, Greg graduated that year. That's why I use that. That is absolutely true, welcome to the younger baby boom boomers. And I'm never going to forget that comment, by the way, never, So I learned today that if Jeff calls me old fuzz, we're We're done and I'm never helping out again. No, I do want to say, Jeff, thanks for putting this on every week. I know you promote the heck out of it, and I think this is a great group of people with a lot of fantastic insights. And I learn as much by listening as I hopefully help with a couple of nuggets here and there. But you guys are all great. Thank you, Thank you fuzz, and I will ever call you old fuzz. Don't worry. Sure, Ariel, you got to have some deep, philosophical, great closing thoughts here, I'll put you on the spot. Oh boy. Yes, My rant for today is that you should make ten interactions on social media that pump somebody else up before you do any of your own self promotion. I like that. I like that. That's like a challenge for everybody Tanner, Can you can you make a challenge like that on your closing thoughts here? Can you beat that? I don't think I'm actually going to do the exact opposite of that and tell you that. Tomorrow's episode of Good Morning Podcasters has a conversation about NFTs and podcasting from Uncut FM, which I think you'll find pretty interesting and hilarious name for a company. But isn't it terrible? I knew of all people on the stage, you would have heard that and been like, I'm sorry, what did they call it? Yeah, it's quite a thing to door, thing to do. I almost thought they were going to just be based elsewhere, but they're in California, so there's really no excuse for nothing. I thought they were French and therefore it was more okay, but maybe not. Maybe not. So if you want want to check out Good Morning Podcasters, it's a day podcast about podcasting for podcasters, and I'd love to have you as a listener. Total selfless plug. Thanks Jeff, there's one way to use your time, Jim, Thank you Tanner. Jim Mallard. I'm going to go kind of sort of in the middle here and say it's great to pop other people up, and I think you should do that, but make sure you're also promoting yourself. And I'm the well, I don't want to send the worst of this, but don't feel guilty about telling somebody about your show. I'll just leave it a fit. Yeah, if you don't toot your own horns, sometimes it may never get tooted. Influential influential quote there, Jim, I will say, toot your own horn around people to whom you want to listen. So like, I'll never promote my show because I'm broad. You know, I assume that none of the forty eight people that are in this room right now live in Washington County, Wisconsin, where my podcast is focused on. But if you were, I'd be talking about it. But otherwise, I'm just here to help pump you up, all right, Jin you have any pumping up you can do to an your closing thoughts here, Well, I just want to say that I think I'm the only one in this group that doesn't have a podcasting Guys, you got every single day that listens to each one of you. You're pushing me to try to create one and start talking about advertising in there. But I'm happy to be here and keep learning from you. Well, you're a content creator. I mean you really are, so you fit right in. We love having you. Thank you, jin JJ. You joined late, but you're going to have the privilege here of the closing thoughts for this whole evening. Oh wow, all right, that's a lot of pressure. You know what My thought is, keep showing up. I you know, we started in the podcasting world years didn't know anybody. And you know, you go to these things and you're a little bit shy because you don't know anyone. In the next time you go to something, you recognize someone a little bit more. And now I come on to this thing and I see all these people who I call my real friends. And so for all of you who are just starting out in this world, I just say, keep showing up because it's such a nice, incredibly helpful group of people. And really, I come from TV, which is an entirely different industry, right, and I really feel supported by all the people in this community, and I feel very excited to support them all. So keep on coming, beautiful, JJ, thank you and fuzz for you just for your knowledge and your record. Here there actually is somebody from Washington County Wisconsin in this room right now, it's Chris. Chris. You see him holding the wrestling title belt down there. He is from Washington County, Wisconsin. Oh really, Oh what wonderful. I'm looking for the wrestling belt. He's giving you the peace sign. Man, make the connection. You're about to go to two listeners. Fuzz I'm just standing hey, my wife and you and my wife sometimes and you. That's awesome. All right, thanks everybody for joining. Come back next Monday at nine pm Eastern for Podcasting Power Hour. Keep being you, keep being great. Tennor Campbell, good bye, everybody, see you guys. Thank you for listening to the Podcasting Power Hour. Everyone is free to participate on Twitter spaces every Monday at nine pm Eastern time. To join, just follow Jeff at podcast Underscore Father or Greg at Indie Droppin'. If you found this podcast helpful, go into your podcast app and write a quick review. Other podcasters will see it and know this show is worth listening to. Also, I'll put a few links in the show notes for ways you can support the show. I think by now you know we love our coffee. Have a great week. That was a really fun one. That was fun. Yeah, it was really good. Do you think Jim was that fun? He doesn't know about our cool down period where we just kind of chat while everyone's doing this. I turned on my fans and put my phone down for a second and go, yeah you can no, no, we're just cooling down, letting everybody you know hang up and just you know, it's just some random chaos talking. We should talk about Jeff being on my show in what July July twenty six. I don't know how that fits, Jim. What are you doing? Man? I like that a job. My listeners have come accustomed to me bringing podcasts on just to talk shop. I'm gonna talk abou. I'm gonna talk to a random person in the world world, and I'm gonna tell my podcast. They're going to know a lot about podcasting and only have listened to your show. Hey, I've actually done had paranormal guests on mine one time on site. Those are good. Those are good. A director of a call center on last week, my friend, So anything's possible. It's so weird to me, Like I said to you on Twitter, like you're the You're the only I just don't have never seen that work unless you're a celebrity. It does, you must be a celebrity. I have a good time doing it. Yeah, that's all it matters. I mean, it's like I told you the other day, I have my name on it, right, so it asked me about me and exactly, well, Great cares about his money. So I means that is not true. That is not true my show. That's why his backgrounds green. My show is is so in the red. It's gonna take a lot of coffees to get it into the black. Let me just tell you, Yeah, coffee black, So every coffee should get you in the black, well temporarily. Yeah. Then I'll make I'll make the puns around here, buddy. Yeah, it was a pretty uh, it ended a pretty good turnout, to be honest. Yeah, hopefully everybody. Jeff, when do you put the new schedule up? Do you put it up on like we put it up tomorrow so people can set the timer? Yeah, tomorrow morning. I'll make it, tweet it. Yeah. Yeah. What what people might not know is that you see the little recording going on, we are gonna, you know, mildly edit this and publish it as a podcast. So if people, you know, want to go back and try to hear the advice, because you know, I'm sure nobody's taking notes, right, So if people want to go back and hear some of this stuff, we're going to make that available. I just think that's the nice thing to do. Blue collar down there actually does take notes. I remember that he was actually a pen and paper, and well, he's ready. He's ready for class, you know, like most people are just you know, they're on their nightly walking walking their dog or you know, their fourth ber or whatever. I just like might be because that's what time my show. So it kind of gets me ready for tomorrow night. So, Jim, are you gonna are you gonna send? Are you gonna submit a paranormal show for me or what? We can give it a test drive. Yeah, I'll get you one and I'll get you I told im working on my kind of best of each category that I kind of threw out to EA other. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah. The true crime interviews are hit and miss, but if you have like a really well known true crime podcaster or somebody like that, we could try that too. I think I'm kind of throwing that all together. It kind of was inspired last week to start doing some different things so and as you know, it all comes together quick. Yeah yeah, all right, well I think we should wrap it up. Huh, everybody's exiting the building. Yep, I'm going to exit the building to you. Thank you, see buddy, Well, thank you for checking out this episode of Anie Podcaster. I really do appreciate it. If you're interested in learning more about this podcast, you can go to podcastfather dot com. If you're interested in all the different kind of work that I'm doing, you can go to Jeff Townsend dot Media contact form on there various other different podcasts and projects that I'm involved in that I think you will enjoy. But again, thank you for supporting me, and make sure you support any dropping network like we cover to the beginning. Keep your podcast featured on there until I see you next time. Take care of yourself and keep being you and keep being great. Jeff Townsend Media saves you. Good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back? Will you be back coming by ask
