Podcasting Power Hour: The Future of Podcasting with Dave Jones of Podcasting 2.0 and The Podcast Index

What you're gonna do, brother, when Jeff Townsend Media runs wild on you. Have you been searching for a podcast? Do you want to learn from some great content creators? Well you've come to the right place Indie Podcaster with your host Jeff Townsend, the Indie podcast Father. All right, all right, all right, this is Jeff Townsend. Thank you for checking out another episode of Indie Podcaster. This podcast is made for podcasters and other content creators. Certainly don't consider myself a guru, or either do any of my friends that will be featured in these episodes. But what we do like to do is talk content creation, pick each other's brains, and have a good time. I'm proud to mention that this podcast is sponsored by Indie drop In. Now, let me tell you something about Indie Dropping. This is an awesome network that my friend Greg has created. What he does is drop episodes from independent content creator into his established podcast audience on his feed, and he shares your episodes to an audience that already exists. Yes, it's like free advertisement promotion for your podcast. He spent a lot of time, money, and effort building it, and he already has an audience interested in the content, and he can certainly help you by sharing your content is great promotion. Go to indie drop in dot com slash creators and check it out. If you're a comedy, true crime, paranormal, for various other different kinds of podcasts, you can benefit from this. So I really encourage you once again go to indie drop in dot com slash creators and see if you can get your stuff featured on indie drop in. We'll go back to the podcast here Indie Podcasters. So what we've currently been doing is sharing content from three different projects that I'm involved in. The first is Good Morning Podcasters with my good friend Fuzz Martin. We also do some content on podcasting Sucks, and then in these episodes you will also hear some content from podcasting Power Hour. Podcasting Power Hour is a live thing we do on Twitter spaces. We get a whole bunch of great podcast minds together we talk podcasting. So if you're a content creator a podcaster, I think you'll take something away from every episode of the content I'm going to share with you. With that being said, make sure you check out Eddie drop in and make sure you enjoy this episode. I think it's important that we all continue to learn and grow every day, and that will help us become even better content creators. That's certainly what I try to do, learn something new every day. I'm excited to share this content with you. I think it'll be a learning experience for you. Let's get to this episode, and I hope you have a great time listening to it. Welcome to Podcasting Power Hour with your host, Jeff Townsend, aka the Indie podcast Father. I'm your co host Greg from Indie Dropping Network. Podcasting Power Hour is recorded live every Monday at nine am Eastern Time on Twitter spaces every week, an experienced panel of podcasters and other experts over pack of your podcasts and questions. We will of course put links to all of our guests and anyrrelevant information in the show notes. All right, let's get this party start. Welcome to the most stupendous, this beer's delicious Twitter space that there is, Podcasting Power Hour. I'm Jeff Townsend. We've got a lot of the usual characters in here, but speaking of father time, Greg will be in the co host seat this evening. I'm always in the co host seat. What are you talking about? This thing has my butt imprint on it. Yeah, hello everybody, Greg here from Indie Drop In Network. Uh so my job is really just a laugh at Jeff's jokes, so that it's just not silent in the room for an hour. M e dog, how could you say something like that? Or you're a funny man. Jim Mallard is with this from the Mallard Report. He's been doing them? Has it been the Report for eleven years? Like such a creative name, but I came up with but you know, if I could go back eleven years anyway, speaking of a man who's back a million years, he's the Hall of Famer, the sensual Dave Jackson. I'm sensual now, well that's exciting, glad to be here. I'm just trying to get you more and more lively here. I don't want to know how you know he's sensual, Jeff. Maybe maybebe in the after hours of podcasting Power Hour you can tell us that story sounds spicy. And of course the guest this evening, the reason that you are here because you're not here for me, certainly, although you may like me pestering Tanner who has no called no show this evening, but we have Dave Jones here from Podcasting Index and the two point zero. Guy. Let me be slightly pedantic. It's the podcast Index, not the podcasting Index. Yeah, okay, well you got me there. Yeah, guys, let's just start off. Cut it, cut it, cut it, cut it, rewind it Podcasting Index guy, Dan, it's great to be here. Thanks. This is my first ever Twitter Space. It is. Yes, No, I've never spoken on I've listened to a few, but I've never spoken on any. This is interesting. I'm I mean, I hadn't. I have no proper setup for this. Yeah, sounds much more profu on my AirPods. I can walk you through the proper setup if you get in the Twitter Space game big time. Okay, But no, appreciate you taking the time to do this. I know there's a lot of questions about the work that you guys are doing, so I just want to give you a minute. It's not this is by no means an interview. And in the meantime, if you want to talk podcasting, to start requesting to speak and we'll get you up here. But as we wait for people to come up, just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you're doing. Oh yeah, sure, Yeah, so we're the Podcast Index. If anybody doesn't knows the sort of the first product that we launched. When I say we, I mean me and Adam Curry. Adam and I go back a long time, probably about twelve years ago is when we first met, and we were we met under the A's part of a project with Dave Weiner called a EC two for poets, and that was a part of his OPML microblogging and RSS reader product, and so we got to know each other and ended up sort of spinning out of that project into a different thing that we launched together called the Freedom Controller, and that became the basis of his the show notes system that he uses to do the No Agenda show is basically a way to collect and save articles from RSS feeds as you read them all throughout the week, and then you get to show day and you export those You just export those articles as a big batch into an outline, and then you after the show's over, you published all that as a as a set of show notes. So it's just sort of like a soup to nuts type research and publishing tool for show notes. And then because of all that work, we've learned a lot about aggregation and you know RSS, the vagaries and the mysteries of how to part you know part terrible RSS feeds, and that gave us the confidence to launch the index, the Podcast Index, which is a free API for app developers to use to write podcast apps so they don't have to spin up twenty five servers and incur all that cost and knowledge to do that. They can just use the Podcast Index and we run on donations to make it to make it free. And then we have a podcast each week. That's uh, we don't ever have meetings. We we rarely talk during the week, and so that's our that's our board meeting of the podcast Podcast Index every Friday at noon Central time and last a couple of hours. We have a good time and talk about all the stuff that's going on in the podcasting two point oh community. And so that's that's the Podcast Index. And then the podcasting two point er side of things is just our effort to push podcasting forward, uh feature wise, to build crazy new stuff. It will eventually end up in every player and hosting company as new features that are not bound behind some huge company like Spotify or Apple, but that the it's community led and community created, and it's been very successful over the last couple of years. We've got a lot of new features and podcasting and a lot of a lot of cool stuff going. I'll go ahead and ask you the first question. I've been asked this, well, well several times over the last year. What the hell is two point zero? People ask me, like, what does that mean? What is it? Yeah? Two podcasting two point oh ends up being sort of incorrectly synonymous with value for value and and sort of bitcoin lightning payments, and that's but that's just one part of it. That's just one feature out of I think it's eighteen different tags and two three different protocols that we have now, so that that's just one part of it. Podcasting two point oh. You know, I'm in this and then in this never ending quest to figure out how to explain it better. So I think I would say I'm going to try it a different way now. I think podcasting two point oho is is sort of like a put up or shut up for the open podcasting ecosystem. So it's you've got what we expect podcasting to be, which is open, free, uncontrolled, decentralized. That's what it was in the beginning, and that's what we expect is what we think of it as. But then you have what it became over the last you know, almost two decades, which is still open and free, but controlled by secret slack groups of people of hosting companies and app developers and centralized in Apple's directory and namespace. So two P zero is it's an open source project to try to see if what we expect podcasting to be is what it can actually be. It's it's this grand experiment to see if it can actually be decentralized and uncontrolled, so that the way it works out in practice is you have just all these developers that hang out at podcast index, dot social and hang out on all of our gethub repos and are submitting code and coming up with ideas. Developers from hosting companies and podcasting apps and third party services and even in podcasters themselves have all these people that have joined in the party. And that's what we expect podcasting to be led by. We want them to be. We want podcasting to be led by those people, not people at a billion dollar corporations. And so can that happen? I mean, is that is it possible? I guess the last couple of years, says yes, it seems like it is possible. Hey, before before I passed it off to you, Greg, I do want to mention if you want to speak, don't be shy, go ahead and request. But there's also there's now a future of down there on the bottom right of the comments feature. Do you have any questions or comments and you don't actually want to you can click down there and reply, okay, Greg, I'll pass it off to you now. Yeah, yeah, no problem. I was just kind of curious how you know the podcasting two dot oh kind of name space features or additions to the RSS, how have they been viewed by the apples and Spotify's, because I mean, right now they control a giant chunk of the listener space. So I'm just trying to figure out how, you know, how that you know works right, because it seems like if you if ten percent of the listeners are on apps that support two dot oh, you know that isn't I mean, that doesn't seem like it would move the needle. Yeah, that's a fair question. But I think one one way to look at it is if you go back. Let's see if you go back, let's just say twelve fifteen years you had you had Firefox, that was, you know, just this small one percent of the browser market. And as web standards developed over time over the years, it's slowly, there was just this slow ground swell of support as people saw the benefit of the standards as they were and you had more and more adoption of it. And I said this, I said this recently that I think I think it was I forgot who I was talking to, But I absolutely think Apple and Spotify will both adopt podcasting two point zero features for different reasons. I think Apple will ultimately adopt these features because they're good ideas and they make their products better. And I think Apple, at its core, we give them hard time sometimes, but they they ultimately do want the best product for their customers. Spotify, I think for a different reason. I think that they will see that they need these features and it is easier to rely on a collective group, just like they've relied on. Let's be honest, Spotify has has been the collective beneficiary of a bunch of free content. Podcasting is an immediate win for them because it's loads of free content that they can just tap into and not have to pay for and I think that also applies to podcasting two point zero. You have people doing the hard work of development and feature and spec writing and testing, and they don't have to pay for that. They get the benefits, but they don't have to incur the costs. So I think both of them will ultimately adopt it. But luck with anything, it's just text time. But I'm confident. Jim over to you, So I'm gonna ask this question and talk to me like I'm idiot, and I'm an idiot because well, I'm aware of podcasts two point outs, So what is the Like You've mentioned some things, but I'm still just a little fuzzy on trying what you're trying, Like what's currently out there? What are you doing today? That's like, are you are, Jim, are you looking for like the killer features that you're I'm just, like I said, I'm just out to lunch of this whole thing. This is all new to me, so yeah, yeah, So, well, the features of podcasting two point zero are things that are written up to be included by hosting companies and apps, so ultimately the some of them are listener facing and some of them are going to be sort of back end things that the listener never sees. So, for instance, one of the features that we've developed is the ability to ship a transcript with your episode. So if you have host generated transcripts, like if let's just say your own a host like bus Sprout that offers that service, you could generate your transcript included in your episode, and then bus pro will shift that in the RSS feed. Then podcasting then podcasting apps that support the transcript tag which we developed, can go and read that transcript and display time stamped captions in the app. So that's one feature that's listener facing. Another one would be something like cloud based chapters, and so those are chapters that are not embedded in the audio file, but are they live as a separate file in the cloud, so that you can modify the chapters without having to touch the audio. And for that's also would be a listener listener facing feature, and we our show is a perfect example of the usefulness of something like that. So for instance, every Friday on our show we do we Adam just puts a stub, it creates a blank chapter's file, puts it into the episode, and then our listeners use a tool called hyper Catcher. Studio to go and crowd edit the chapters, so they listen to the show and put chapter markers in for us, and then every time somebody puts a chapter marker in, it pops up in the podcasting apps. So that's a pretty powerful feature. It takes the burden of editing a whole bunch of chapters out of the hands of the podcaster if they don't want to do it themselves. So it's a couple of user facing features. Then you look at something that's more of a back end, undercover feature. It'll be something like podpeing, which is a blockchain protocol to have rabid notification from hosting companies, two podcast directories and apps that a feed has published a new episode. And that's something that you know that a listener's never going to see, but it has huge ramifications across the industry for speed and efficiency of feed polling to make open podcasting easier and cheaper. Jim, did that make any sense to you? Yeah, cleaned it up quite quite well, because, like I said, I'm totally out launch on this whole thing, and this is the first hand, first hand I've said about so I'm excited now, but I'm a little bit on the surface. So now Dick for find it awesome. Well, Dave Jackson's up next, maybe he'll ask a good question. We'll see. Well, the way you can kind of look at this is five years ago. Now I'm in Ohio. But five years ago, if I got a chicken sandwich anywhere I did not get a pickle on my chicken sandwich. Chick fil A comes to town. Now every place I go there's pickles on my chicken sandwich because people are like, oh, I know what that's like, I want that on my chicken sandwich. And so podcasting two point zero is like, well, they've made a spice rack. They made a spice rack, and the more people use those spices in their podcast, their audience is going to go, hey, like, I noticed you have cloud chapters. This other podcast they used to do used to use Hindenberg to make the chapters in the MP three file, but now we're doing dynamic content and the chapters don't work anymore. Well, how do you fix that cloud based chapters? And they go, oh, that's pretty cool. So it's all these little things and it's really going we have to get everybody talking about this. Like when the one dude from Spotify was like home podcasting two point on. And then Amazon's like, oh, we're gonna do transcripts and I'm like, oh cool, We've already got it made, and they're like, we're going to do our own. We got to get people using the stuff that's already here. They don't know there's a spice rack, and then oh you want a little paprika, it's right here, so that they can use the one, so that when we go to adopt this everywhere, that everybody be using the same spices, and then everybo to be consistent in that whole nine yards. So but that's one example of a face for the end user. At first, I did not get chapters. I'm like, why are we making this so hard? I can do them in Hindenburg. And then Dynamic Content comes along and horks the whole thing. So that's how I kind of view the features. Dang, I sense a romance, so they should be paying you to promote this. Dave Jackson, well, I'm actually getting ready to break more stuff. I came in I started a podcast called Leading the Bleeding. Hence I didn't know what I was doing, and I kind of jumped in and broke everything. It was like one of the world's worst onboarding experiences ever. But I got it up in going and I have sense now bought the materials to build my own little node, which I don't want to go too deep into that, but I'm going to be breaking more stuff and reporting more on this because I really do think in ten years we're going to be like, oh, I'm so glad we went through this to build this, because I think that's gonna be you know, it's in true Adam Curry fashion. He's about five years ahead a time, but it's gonna be great. Jackson's breaking things at all now. I want so jeez, see what you did, Dave, mister Campbell, you are up, sir, the most hated man. I knew it. Thanks guys. Uh sorry. As later, I was on a rowing machine trying to get a pr and I didn't didn't do it, but I tried. I got some some practical question. This is Dave, right, Yeah, Hey, Dave, we're gonna have We're gonna have beer skis at PM. Right. Uh, That's that's what I've been told, I've been I've been promised to be. You did your people talk to his people? How do you not know this, I don't know. We never know who's on the show's d MS. Okay, So there's there's some similarities here that I see between Podcast two point zero as far as adoption understanding, that is similar to just in general Web three and and NFTs, and that is that, you know, it just seems complicated. I think a lot of people in this room might be scratching their head just a little bit. And with that in mind, I've recently started experimenting with NFTs and Web three and building a couple of things, buying stuff, trying to figure it out, just you know, losing a lot of money, frankly, And something that struck me the other day was, you know, this is Web three has got some serious problems. But I think once it's all sorted and figured out, it ends up being something that is pretty indispensable. And I think that the struggle that everybody's having a Web three right now, especially the environmental stuff, is do I support it while it sucks so it can get to what it will become if I support it while it sucks. Not not to say that podcast two point oho sucks, but to say that to use the podcast two point oh features really depends on one huge thing, and that seems to be finding a podcast host that will will adopt all of these great name spaces that you've created. But also, I'm wondering if you see there being like a runway of opportunity to get this thing stood up and functional and adopted broadly before all these closed systems kind of shore up the up and coming creator so that the up and coming creator is like, why would I fuck with any of that stuff I'm creating on anchor and Spotify or exclusively an Apple? Is that a tension in your roadmap at all? Do you guys think of that? I don't personally think of it. The reason I don't think of it is I think I would think about it more if they had shown if the closed systems had shown this amazing track record of bringing features swiftly to market. But they don't. That's they seem somehow incapable of bringing features, compelling features in a timely manner. I mean, we've so the podcast in two point zero open source project has been around for two years this month, and in that time we've had we've we've brought two new protocols and seventeen name space features in that same time span from Spotify, we've gotten polls and Q and A and maybe some advertising cards like and and then we got something that you have to that you have to enter in, like some kind of colon U R L into Safari to play with or something like. They're just not They're just not doing anything. And so if I would be, I would be word. I think the tension would be there and it would feel like, oh no, we need to rush and do this before the closed systems take over if they had shown that track record. But they just don't. And I honestly it's it's baffling as to why they haven't done need thing faster. And the only thing I can think of is just that perhaps the passion is not there. I mean, we do the podcast in two point zero. Project is not you know, it's not me and Adam. It's a collection of dozens and dozens and dozens of people and that are active contributors that only they really only care about this cool feature that they want to build and see it function in the marketplace. And they're not They're never going to get any money for this. And I think the passion, especially amongst developers, what what developers want is they want to make cool stuff and they want to see people be happy when they use it. That's what they want to see. And when you have a lean sort of group of developers that can push out changes very fast and immediately have feedback from app from from apps like Podverse, these smaller apps like Podverse and Costematic, it's like they'll push and they'll they'll push an idea out and before you know it, Podverse has done it within a week and it's there and people are, you know, happy, and they're getting great feedback. That sort of loop, that feedback loop you don't get when you're in a huge company and you have cycles and sprints and lack of lack of feedback directly with the customer. I just think there's a difference in mindset and I'm just I'm just I'm not worried about it. And especially with some of the conversations we've had lately with some of the bigger players in in the podcast market, they're excited about this stuff and I and I think, I think there's really not a risk there. I think the runway is really long, fair and the next maybe might call it here, might have some of the questions. I have one more. A conversation I had with whoever adverse app Twitter and or his Mitch, he pointed something out interesting to me that I didn't know, and that was that the I'm not sure if you call it the tipping name space or the support name space. What is it called. Are you telling about the lightning stuff? Yeah, that's the value block, the value block name space. He explained to me that technically anything could be put into that name space, such that if I hit tip inside of an app, I wouldn't have to wrangle with the somewhat obtuse world of web three and cryptocurrencies. I could in fact put something like buy me a coffee in there, such that when somebody pressed tip instead of tipping me in you know, whatever quasi currency people on the Internet are dealing with, they could tip real dollars through an existing platform like Stripe. And I think some of I can't remember if it was you, Dave that said this, but it was somebody in that sphere of conversation that said, well, yes, that's true, but we would have to like we'd have to ask permission from Stripe, We'd have to ask permission from buying me a coffee, we'd have to try to convince them, and we're not gonna waste our time doing that because we want to make progress moving forward with the expansion of this spec and creating a new namespaces and all these great things that you're doing. And that struck me, and I don't mean this in a callous way, but it struck me as a little single minded that it seems like you would want somebody on your team to be trying to have those conversations because if all of a sudden, somebody could tip using Stripe in a one button solution, or with buy me a Coffee, or with Kofi, or with any of these other solutions that people seem to like, that that would help in the quicker adoption of the two point zero spec. So the thing around that is, we built we built Lightning and focused on that because, Uh, it fit, It did all the things we wanted it to do. It was cheap, it was it's a transaction. You can send micro transactions of just you know, a penny at a time without fees. Uh. And it's not it's anonymous, it's encrypted, and so we and plus we were already already familiar with bitcoin, so it had all the qualities that Adam and I needed to feel confident pushing forward with that. So the initial value block specification, it's on the name space. There's a full UH document that goes into detail about the format and the structure of the XML and what it should look like. The reason we started with Lightning was because it had all those qualities, but we intentionally made the spec all along the way so that it could anything could be put in there and think. And to date, many people have come up and said something similar to what you're saying, said, well, why didn't you do this? Well, why didn't you do that? Well, how about theoreum, how about Hive? What about Cardono and just the let you know, what about US dollars in some fashion, so the let Many people have asked that, and we have the same response every time we say, we did this. We did the reference back. It's already been it's already in use broad you know broadly, there's seven or eight apps that are using it. UH. There's two hosting companies now that have Lightning support in the directly in the x m L feed, So it's already in use. If you want to see something different in that value block. Go modify the value block. It's open source. You can do it right there in the make the changes, write the appendix, and submit it, and then everybody will be able to use it. And today nobody has. And so I think the issue there is not that it's up. You know that it's it behooves us to go and do all these integrations to make everybody else's ship. It's that everybody thinks it's a great idea, but nobody actually wants to do it, which tells me that maybe the desire for it is not all that great. If you want buy me a coffee, maybe you just use the existing stuff that already uses buy me a coffee. If you want something new and something that's that's more, that's a little bit easier than buy me a coffee and cheaper, maybe that thing already exists in the form of the lightning. I don't know how fair that is, because I think the person who's going to be directing what is the best thing to put in that block is going to be the listener who ultimately has to find it sentimple, easy, comforting, and familiar, And I don't think the listener knows. Podcasting two point zero exists to say, oh, I'll jump in a GitHub and make it better. But I do think it's more. It's a little bit easier than buy me a coffee and cheaper. Maybe that thing already exists in the form of the lightning. I don't know how fair that is, because I think the person who's going to be directing what is the best thing to put in that block is going to be the listener who ultimately has to find it sentimple, easy, comforting, and familiar. And I don't think the listener knows Podcasting two point zero exists to say, oh, I'll jump in a GitHub and make it better. But I do get your point, and then I guess my last question. Then I'll shut up because other people have their hand up. Dave and Jamingo joined just a minute ago. How much of using the cryptocurrency within the apps has to do with trying to avoid the fifteen to thirty percent that a host operating system might charge. Is that part of it? I guess I can only answer from myself. I never really thought of that, because on the crypto side of things, I'm using crypto the crypto term loosely, I guess broadly. On the crypto side of things. The app stores have been pretty hands off. They don't they have not really come out. There's lots of crypto wallets, there's lots of crypto, there's lots of cryptocurrency currency activity going on in app store apps, and they don't seem to be very interested in it. And I think it's because legally, by definition, most cryptos is but you know, bitcoin, for sure, it's classified as an asset, it's not a currency, So there's not to them. I don't see. I don't think they see currency transactions happening. They see some other thing happening that doesn't affect them legally or monetarily, and so they just have not got involved. So a lot OF's, like I said, there's a bunch of apps in apps Store now that use the lightning valuseback and this. They've never really had any feedback negatively from the app store guys, So I don't it's not been in my mindset. The biggest impetus for me and Adam at least was to make sure that nobody gets in the middle between the creator and the and the listener and the unless you want them to be. So this it's the creator's decision whether or not they want to introduce somebody else into the mix between their listener and themselves in order to have a concrete pipeline from source to consumption. The because if you if you introduce a third party, a payment processor, anybody else. I saw this with GitHub. We just saw the Tornado cash uh repo taken offline and the developer of that product to his account removed from GitHub uh in every whenever you see, whenever you introduce a third party but a middleman, you always have the possibility that you can be platformed, censored, whatever you want to say. So in order to make that connection, that financial connection between the creator and the consumer as robust and unblockable and undeplatformable as possible, you need to have that payment network that you need to have that that direction, that direct pipeline there. It really wasn't about trying to get around some sort of thirty percent. I never even thought about that. It's really about making it, you know, unblockable. I guess, okay, cool, let's thank you for answering that data. I'm just trying to get to somebody else who's Melissa's had her hand up for a bit datay, Hey it's Dave Jackson, then Jamingo, then Melissa Okay, yeah, might not be quick. It's just they're already what you just talked about Tanner already exists. Uh one. And here's the problem though nobody knows this exists unless you're listening to James Kritlin or somebody who does coding. I know, there's a bit of code that just says R E L E equals payment and then you you put in an HF to your whatever wants to be PayPal, buy me a coffee, whatever. But that only works I think in overcast. Then there's one and I think this is a two point zero spect podcast funding where you just put in what yeah, that one you can put in your PayPal whatever and that again in some apps will put a little dollar sign, I know, and cast a pot. I think it puts a little dollar sign and then you have the value for value things. So some of this exists, but the I mean, there are a few. There's RSS, dot com, castos, there are some of these that are it's actually making it into the interface of the media host so that somebody can come in and they don't have to know the HTML to put it in they just go, oh, here's my PayPal email address, and behind the scenes it puts in that kind of stuff. So that's that's always going to be the biggest hurdle is adoption and people making it easy, because it can't just be the nerds hacking there are If this is a good word, Yeah, it does seem like podcasters are the ones who are most interested in this stuff. I think we need to get listening more interested. Go ahead, so I'm done. I'll pass it over to Jamngo. Hey, listen. I love the idea of podcasting two point zero, but I'm a podcaster who's allergic to code. So every time I look over at podcasting two point zero, I look over and I'm like, nope, not yet. It's not ready. So as a podcaster who doesn't code, where would someone go to learn the least painless way to adopt two point zero into their podcasting workflow and make some of this work? Is it ready for podcasters? The common podcaster? Yet? That's I guess it's the host, right, Dave. Yeah, some of it, some of it is not ready, some of it is. Some of it is already there and you're and you can use it easily. So the way this this was talked about, uh, sort of in a different context. In the business context, you had for years when when cryptocurrency and blockchains first were developed, you had every business consultant saying, you need to get involved in blockchain, you know, it's the future. And every after a while everybody just started rolling their eyes. And so there's a blockchain and uh, machine learning and artificial intelligence, and you just heard these these these phrases over and over and over, but really that was never meant for businesses to mostly do directly. The way that you get the benefit of things like blockchain, machine learning, artificial intelligence is you use the applications and the software that the developed that developers have integrated into it. So if I'm an accounting firm and I want, do I need to go and hire a big group of developers to develop artificial intelligence and machine learning apps for my business. No, I just wait for the line of business apps in the accounting world to integrate those things in for me, and then I just get the benefit of them by using their software packages. And I think it's the same way, and I know it's the same way in podcasting. The podcast in two point zero project develops the specs and protocols that create that enable these things to happen, and then podcasters will use them as they become available. When the podcast hosts and apps integrate them, and that's when you know that they're ready, is when they just show up. So my question, okay, so realize that I'm I don't know enough to know enough. So would this be more integrated in the podcast hosting like I would say Lipsyn or Blueberry, or would it be something where you'd go somewhere else? Would it be more in the p kissed apps that are using this, and then that's how you would implement this into the workflow. Well, sorry, go ahead, Dave, No, no, go for it. I was going to say jamingo the So it's two parts. The way that the user the listener benefits from you using this is in the app. That's on the app side, which is why it's important for the apps to adopt it. But the part that you do so that those things can be used in the app is on the host side. So Dave has already both Daves. Actually, I have mentioned for example, rss dot com, which is a hosting provider like libsn or captivator, any of the others that have some of these features that you can already set up so that they show up in apps that are currently using these new name spaces. I get that, right, Dave, Yeah, that's exactly right. So then I'm sorry. My last question. I know I have like three last questions. So my last question is for Dave Dave jack who works at Lipson. Will Liftsen be integrating any of this soon into Because I'm a big Lipson fan, that's where I hoo's most of my stuff, That's where my clients host most of their stuff. Will they be implementing that this into into lips and soon Customer ret for Dave, customer retention get on it. Yeah, I forget their U I forget their official statement. It's something like we're watching everything because I'm I'm going to answer now is Dave Jackson from School of Podcasting not Dave Jackson Lipson employee. Basically, they're watching everything and they will decide. And the problem with some of the I don't want to say problem. Uh. The situation with bigger companies is they have a roadmap, especially if you're rolling out other I don't know, if you're going around buying other companies and such, and you're trying to get them all to work together. That's not an easy task. So when somebody says, hey, can you add this thing to the thing, they've already allocated money and resources and such to that situation. So it's not that they're not going to do it. I just can't say when. But I do want to tell you John that by the end of this week. There's a tool called alb Alby. If you go to get alb dot com and what this does, this is the easy way to for the podcaster. So you go over, you get an ALBI thing and it gives you a bunch of gobbledygook. You're like, here's your thing, and here's your thing. Then you go over to podcast index dot org. You sign up and you get this thing called a podcaster wallet. It says, hey, I need your RSS feed and then I need this thing and this thing, and you're like, huh it looks like the things that were in ALBI and you're like, yep, that's it, and you copy and paste and copy and paste and you are done. It's really that simple. You're really selling to day. You go get well, I'm here. Yeah, it's it's literally there's two pieces of information that you so you have to sign up in two places, you copy and paste twice. And I just logged into mind and I can see that. On Saturday, Scott from Talkingbeards dot com boosted me five thousand sads. He said, hey, thanks for this topic. So now the kind of sad thing is but it's good, we're not complaining. Is when you convert five thousand SATs to you know, money, it's like not as much as you maybe hope, but it's why tell him? Why'd you tell him? And no, But here's the thing again, fast forward five years from now, when you've got a big chunk of your audience doing this and it's the norm now, and plus who knows what bitcoin's going to be at that point, it's going to be really cool. So but right now, and that's why the video I have right now shows a system that used Telegram, So yeah, to install Telegram and i'lb doesn't do that makes it easy. It's sign up twice, copy paste twice. You're done. Yeah, Well we're talking about if you're talking about the value stuff, you know on the value stuff is the Bitcoin lightning part of podcasting two point zero, and I like to always be clear that podcasting two point oho is way bigger than just the just bitcoin and lightning. But if you're you know, if we're talking specifically about that, and you want to see not what it could be, but what it is actually now our show every Friday, we get lots and lots of donations through the value through Value for value through the Lightning network, we get Adam looked at the he did an export from our NOE today and we're getting about four million SATs a month, So that's about one thousand dollars a month in donations directly through the apps. That's there's no US dollars involved at all. And we got one donation last month. We got five million SATs in one go, so that was a little over one thousand dollars just boom one. It came in right during the middle of the show. So it's not This isn't like I guess what I'm trying to say is it's not all aspirational like maybe one day, ten years from now we'll all be making some money. No, No, it's actually happening right now, and it's just a matter of how much you commit to it because value for value. Value for value is more than just hooking up a wallet and then watching money roll in. That's not how it works. That's not how it will ever work. Value for value if that is the goal of your show, if that's what you want to do with your show, there's a system that has to be put into place where you enable that feature, that that feature to be there. You enable the SATs to come in by enabling the value block and the wallets and that king to think. But that's only the first part of it. Then you have to integrate it into the show because what people want is to give value back to you, and you have to give them the channel in which to do that. They want to be a participant in the show. So the value for value loop is what you call it. And you get you you make it available, you ask them to give you back value, and then when they give that back to you, you use that as content in the show, and that begins. It creates a feedback loop where other listeners hear notes it's being read on the show, they hear donation amounts, and it's I think we're so used to being afraid to ask people for money. We think that if a listener hears that. Another if a listener hears a donation of like one thousand dollars, we're afraid, as the podcaster that, oh, they heard that somebody gave me a thousand dollars, They're going to think I don't need any more money, and so nobody else is going to donate. It's actually psychologically what we found. What we found is is the complete opposite. When somebody hears you get a thousand dollars donation, it makes them feel guilty for not giving you anything. They've been listening to you and essentially mooching your content for free, and so they want to step up to the plate and they're like, well, if this guy gave a thousand bucks, I can at least come off the wallet for twenty and so it has this sort of opposite social psychological effect. But you have to But none of it works unless you integrate it into the show. That's the key part of everything that most people miss when they try to implement value for value. They're like, I hook up the wallet, but I'm not getting any money. Well, you're not getting any money because you didn't ask for it, and you're not doing the value for value loop. Thanks Joleen. Podcasting Power Hour is part of indie drop in network. If you are a podcaster looking to grow your listeners, check out indie drop in dot com. Indie drop in is always free and we have opportunities right now for comedy, true crime, scary and paranormal podcasts. Just go to indydropin dot com to learn more. Unlessa you want to go ahead, sure, but I think I'm pretty much way behind everyone because I just want to start a podcast. I have no clue what I'm doing. When you guys are talking coding. I work in clinical trials, so like that's my scientific knowledge. However, my late friend Andy Gross he developed some I don't know RIOC school some kind of code and tried to help me with it. And this was years ago, and I just and also I'll probably get kicked off because I thought, until I heard my mom and brother have a fight over it on Easter, that NFTs were made up by south Park post COVID. But my simple question is, like, where did you guys start? Because you know, I I do understand. I mean, I guess I can learn because I I can understand AI as far as like clinical trials, I can understand, you know, but what is an easy way to just start? I mean, where did you guys? Starts dot com that's where you so so hold on there. There are a few people up here that could plug some things to sell you, some things to help you with that. So I want to kind of avoid doing that. I don't have I don't have any That's the thing right now. I And that's the thing, like, I'm a single mom. I don't have any money to you know, buy anything. You know, I think people people will donate when the nineteen year old son has a mullet like that is, donate to me. I just but honestly, though, where like where do I start? Oh? Boy, you guys, I really don't want to tell her to like download the anchor app and just MutS around until she figures out and learns better. But now let's let's back up before that. Why are you starting a podcast? Oh no, no, I can do it quickly. I can do it quickly. I'm starting a podcast because I'm right now, I'm watching so many people go into a deep depression because of what's going on in the world. It's confusing to kids, it's confusing to freaking everyone. You know I have my son when I'm reading The Night before Christmas a couple of years ago, stopping me and asking me why Santa doesn't bring AK forty sevens to North Korea to let them shoot their way out of concentration camps. Like there's so much going on, and I just, you know, I have a funny life like my I have. I'm struggling, you know, like we all are. But I just I don't know. I guess my way of dealing with things is laughing at them. And everyone has been telling me in my life, except for my family because my mom doesn't think it's funny anything I say. But you know, to start a podcast, because it's just I just think we're all kind of in this together, and people are being you know, a holes to everyone and there's no reason for it. Okay, So Melissa, here's you. Tell no one I did this. Okay. I have a reputation as an asshole and I have to keep it. But I'm too, I am too. Don't worry. I oh, perfect, this will work out wonderfully. I have an accelerator that starts on September fourth. It's five hundred and forty bucks if you DM me I'll just put you in it because I've got ten spots left out of twenty and I don't think i'll fill the remaining ten before it starts. Oh, so mine listen. Literally, don't tell anybody I did that. And secondly, you got to show up for it. It's you know, well you got to do the work, are you kidding? I will Okay, don't really really appreciate it. Ten are still an asshole, thanks, Jim. I appreciation believe me. Everyone. Everyone thinks I'm man a whole because I always speak the truth, like I always even in my family, like you know, I'm always the one who just in general, like I think so many people are are so even you know, you see these young like startup people giving advice to everyone, and it's so dumb. It's like simple advice, you know what I mean. It's nothing deep or I don't know, well, you'll fit right in. I don't say anything deep, So just DM me Melissa, okay a, thank you so much. Yeah, no problem, I really really appreciate it. Well, that's a good reminder that if you ever miss one of these podcasting power Hours, you can download it in podcast form after the fact, and you can hear Tanner give away his classes for all of eternity. Hi Jack the space. Uh so yeah, Podcastingpower Hour dot Com. Thanks Tanner, Tanner, thank you, Tanny. That is very nice to you. And that's why we do these spaces, you know, don't be afraid to come up and ask. I mean, that's that's why we do this. So it was really good meeting you as well. Thank you so much, honestly, Dave Jackson's your hand? Your hand's not up anymore? Yeah, well no, wait a minute, we got we got good pods in here. I wonder if that's Queen good pods yourself. I wonder if she's thinking about putting in some podcast two point zero. Probably can, but they haven't. I'll send him an invite, all right. So Dave Jones, Uh, I mean the question wasn't directly to you, but do you have anything to comment on Melissa? Oh? Probably not. I mean I think she's got a lot bigger fish to fry than podcasting two point zero at the moment. But yeah, we all start somewhere there. Yeah, I guess I would say if you start to stick with it for a while, don't bail out too. Don't bel out too fast. If you get if you start to get discouraged or you know, or run against run up against a rough spot, because there's you know, pod fade is is a real thing and it if you push through, you'll get better at it and get more confident. I think that. I think I would say that because there there's not every week that you show up. You not every time you feel great, and sometimes you you you hit publish and you're just like, eh, that just wasn't all that good. But it's funny those weeks sometimes those are the weeks you get the best feedback. And I still not figured that out. It's like sometimes away from a podcast thinking oh that was that was fantastic. I mean, man, we really knocked it out of the park, and it's just crickets, you know, nobody says anything. And the next week we don't get very many donations. And then the next week I'm like, eh, that was average, that was just okay, And then we get this great feedback, we get tons of donations. I just you know, who knows, who knows what the list what the psychology of the listener is. I have I actually have one more question. Do I have to take donations? In crypto form. No, yeah, you had to do that. Yes, okay, no, no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding, Dave. Can I tell you something real quick. My girlfriend's sitting here on the bed with me. She's eating her dinner and you're talking, and she goes, is that Matthew McConaughey. All right, Yeah, So Melissa, let me go back, Melissa, let me go back to your last question. You asked about taking donations. So is the goal of your lession project. It's a little bit of both, I guess, but I need I do need to make money. Sounds that needs some attention. Oh my god, it was you don't even know, you know, he looks like he looks like Ellen DeGeneres had a baby with Jojrt. It's awful. Oh my goodness. Then to to kind of bring it back to a little bit about what we're talking tonight. It doesn't matter how you get the money, you have to deliver value. So that's where I was going back to all my questions of like, Okay, we know why you want to start a podcast. Who is this for? Because it can't be for everybody, and they have to figure out who that person is. In a crystal clear picture and then give them what they want. And if you want them to give you money, you have to solve a problem for them. So, like with the No Agenda Show, I get stuff about the media that makes me want to punch my TV because I'm like, I'm hearing out about how Congress is just screwing the American citizen. And I turn on the TV and they're like, Kim Kardashian wear a red dress on the red carpet last night. I'm like, why are we talking about this? So they're giving me something I can't find with podcasting two point zero. They are giving me information that I can't find anyplace else because they are the origin of the information. So you have to give people something they want enough to where they will then want to give it back. It's the law of risk not to interrupt, but I mean, I think not to be like, I don't know how personal to go, but I mean I could even you know, I have a little girl, I have four kids, and my three eldest start my teenagers are from my ex husband. My baby her father. You know, I'm getting his rights terminated unfortunately, and he owes thirty thousand dollars and his mom works in the court and I mean I could talk about I could talk to day about the injustice in the court system. I mean, you know what I mean. The other thing about making money with a podcast, and everybody loves to skip the steps, and this is where it happened. Yeah, well here's the thing, and this is where I put on my Dave Jackson dream crusher hat, and it's just the truth. Step one is growing audience. You cannot monetize in any form, whether it's crypto or regular or PayPal or buy me a coffee. If you don't have an audience, there's nothing to monetize, and so you have to do something to grow that audience. And that can and nobody wants to hear this when I researched it, it takes years to grow an audience is going to give you any kind of value back to where it's going to make a difference. And people are like, well, I wanted to quit my job in six weeks, and I'm like, it just doesn't work that way. I wish it did, but it's gonna take a little while. So I say that again not to crush your geam your dreams, but just so you come in realistic. That's why I always say you have to be super passionate about your project because when you first start off, and like right now, I'm starting a podcast about the city I live in and I'm getting twenty eight downloads, okay, But i want to see this through and it's an experiment and I'm passionate about trying some things with it. So I'm pushing through even though I'm getting less than you know, thirty download its an episode, but I'm playing and I'm trying something. So you need that passion to push through when you first start, because it takes a while to buildup that audience. A good analog here, Melissa, is that if you so, I would say, if you need my a podcast is not Plan A. It shouldn't be a plan A. Well, no, it's actually going to be like my Plan B. It's like my fun thing. Well it is similar to just to give you an idea of how difficult it is to actually make let's just say a living wage, which I don't know. Different people will define that differently. I think of it as like fifteen bucks an hour, forty hours a week. I think that's a minimally livable wage in order to doing that in podcasting is a lot like doing that if you are someone who paints and wants to make money being a painter. I mean, it's very much an artistic vein of I mean, unless you have a business and you're using it for content marketing. But most podcasters are creating something as if they were a painter and their canvas is you know, the dow and their medium is sound. So it is as difficult, perhaps more difficult than becoming a painter in making money. So Dave's just trying to temper you a little here. It's it's not something that you're going to turn any kind of significant profit in, you know, in a matter of months. Not to say that there are people who get stupid lucky that happens, but to enter into the whole endeavor assuming that it will happen to you is not a good plan. Not that that's what you're doing, but just to make that clear and like one more, yeah, go ahead, Dave, No, go ahead. Well, one point I wanted to bring up on this, to kind of bring back what Dave was talking about is the other day I use cast a pod It looks just like overcast, except it's enabled to stream sutocius to people and I look down and I noticed I forget what it says. It said insufficient funds, and I was like, oh, holy crap. I've been listening to podcasts for like a day and a half and not giving any value back. And I really felt like, Oh, you are a piece of crap. You're listening stuff for free. Once you get used to kind of paying for it, you have this fun. It's a totally different listening experience. And working for Libson, we own a company called Glow and I think it's like the Jim and Julie Show or something like that. And I've seen it twice with that show where they're like, hey, we signed up for the X amount of money per months. How do we give them more money? Because they only have the one plan. And Adam Curry said my favorite thing, he said, never put a limit on how much your audience can give you. So it's one of those things. Once you get them giving you some sort of value back, it's great because they get used to it, but it takes a little again, it takes value, determination and some patience to get them giving it to you in the first place. But it's you know, and I've heard Dave talk about the guy that sent it like a boatload of money in cash. Oh yeah, you know, one of our listeners send it a donation in cash. It's like four thousand dollars to Adam's po box. And it was just like here, I believe in what you're doing, and I want, you know, want this to I want this to happen. And we you know, there's I don't I'm not going to say the name of the podcast, but uh, you know, I pay for it. I try to pay for everything that I can, and so I mean, Tanner knows this. I subscribe to a substack and you know, donated to quite a few people in podcast. If I get some value from from something that you do or write or your podcast, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you something back from it. And the the this podcast that I was talking about a while ago, I went to subscribe on their Patreon and this is a podcast I love dearly. It's thoroughly researched, just so well done, and I was so surprised at the low amounts. The subscription levels were like five dollars, seven dollars, ten dollars, fifteen, dollars, and its like because in these they were labeled as like, you know, gold supporter, diamond supporter, and it's like the diamond level was like twenty dollars, and I was like, holy cow, this is so low. It. I kept thinking these numbers should be way higher than this, and so I just said, screw it. I'm going to just set up a thing on my lightning and I'm just going to donate directly to this podcaster way more than this, because I literally didn't have the option through the subscription page to give them more money. And I'm like, and I value, I said, and thought about, Okay, what's the value I get from this podcast. It's at least twenty five bucks a month worth of value that I get. And so I'm like, okay, that's what I'm gonna do, twenty five bucks a month. And that put me into like, you know, the super super triple diamond level supporter. So yeah, that's a very important thing. Never never artificially limit what your audience can give you, all right. Special shout out to Adam Curry, thank you for joining us. The Man, the Myth, the Legend. We do have a few speakers that laser eyes yeah, a laser. Yeah, yeah, we have a few more people here. We're running over. I want to make sure who have accepted we get to them. I don't really know the orders, so ed will go to you. Then good pods, then Jesse speak EDWARDO all right. Anyway, So I wanted to talk to Melissa podcaster podcast or independent podcaster to independent podcaster, one person crew to one person crew who I've been doing this for about three years now. The first year I did it, I had no idea what the hell I was doing, and I actually gave up after about five episodes, which is typical. And I came back to it right before the pandemic and I did it for about the year. I stopped for a while again. But the second time that I stopped, I had people like Jeff in my corner who were constantly on me to keep going, that I had some value to what I was doing. And in the first year that I was podcasting, I got less than one thousand listens in the first twelve months. By the time I got to the second year, I was at about three thousand. I just I just hit my third anniversary last month. I'm about to hit ten thousand downloads. I haven't done it with any financial support from supporters, or I've never asked for money before. I just only set up a buy me a coffee last month at Tanner's high suggestion. Don't be afraid to take time off and rethink if things aren't working for you. But what has worked for me more than anything else is being a part of this community, this Twitter podcast independent community. Having people like Jeff and Tanner and Greg and Jim telling me the things that I need to hear when I need to hear them to keep me motivated, and sometimes even piss me off, because sometimes I need a good pissing off to break me through to the next level. So no matter what, just don't be afraid that you don't know what you're doing because you will learn from all of these people because they are such a wealth of information. So don't be afraid. Keep going. And if you ever have any questions, these guys are great and they will absolutely be there to help you if you ask. I love you, guys. I love these guys so much because they have helped me so much. Just just keep going, don't be afraid to ask for help. Thank you so much, you guys have been awesome, beautiful ed. Yeah, I mean it's podcasting is very difficult. But I know there were people that I'm sure great Tanner would agree, people that help me along the way. So I ply, all right, good pods is up. I don't know if they really requested I sent them a request. Is it you can? Hey, it's it is me Ken. How are you guys? Good acquiring minds want to know when are you going to put the spec, the two dot oho spec in the app? When I love that they're like just getting ready to launch their desktop version of their app, and we're like more fix it now. So that is that's the answer I was going to give you, Tanner. I appreciate that. So, oh my god, our heads have been down building out the desktop version of this app, so for the last many months. It's a big project. So we have a very I guess uh limited featured version of the desktop coming out in a couple of days, and then we'll be building in more and more of the features that you see on the app over the next i'd say two and a half months, and then we will pick our heads up and absolutely are interested in and want to add, you know, a bunch of the podcasting two point zero technology into into the into the app, end the website, so that will be that'll be coming awesome. Yeah, we've definitely been keeping our eye on it. It's just that, man, there's just so much to do. Yeah, this's there's a there's a chicken and egg thing always in podcasting. Everybody knows this. It's because you have two sides. You have the hosting side and you have the app side, and so the question is always how do you break the chicken and the egg, and the you have to pick one or the other. We decided to pick the hosting company side. So we just have spent the last two years just making great relationships with the hosting companies and just really focusing on cultivating that side of things so that by the time that app developers got got around to a cycle where they could spend some time to it, they would already have loads of content in which there was already pieces of two point zero in there, so that there was content to work with, so that they weren't blindly building in features and then sort of hoping upon hope that a host would someday support it. So there's almost there's about four hundred thousand feeds right now that we want to have at least one podcasting two point oho feature in it. Probably about there's going to be close to half a million feeds that declare the name space by the end of the year, so there's there's now. By focusing on that though, on the hosting side, we were able to get a corpus of material out there where the apps could have some confidence to go forward and spend some developer hours on it. Yeah. I think it's a good strategy. It shouldn't be too complicated for us. Again, we just need to pick our heads up after we finished the desktop version. That'd be great. Steps can baby steps? No? Okay, so we have okay, yeah, we have time. We'll just go ahead and finish up here with the last person for we kind of closing thoughts and close it out, Jesse, go ahead. I actually just wanted to ask really quick. I've asked this a few times for unfortunately didn't take notes. I wanted to get started on a podcast that I've got like flushed every ready to go. I want a one stop shop on an iPhone. Does anybody have any recommendations? I really just want to open up this app. Push record and then be able to maybe do some edits from there and then publish it by pushing a second button. That's what I'm hoping for. Oh my god, he's like the perfect guy for all my naysaying and warnings. Uh yeah, there, I mean there are apps that'll do that, Jesse. Do you want to be able to edit it? The thing is is I would rather just start over if it gets to be that bad of a flub or whatever. And even if I'm good to go, or at least I think I will be. And I realize I say that like from this end of it, and I'm sure. I'm sure they'll come like minute nine out of a thirty five minute thing where I'm like, God, damn it, I'm such an idiot. But I'm willing to gamble just for the sheer fact that I know that any extra steps that I put between myself and pushing that button is just more time loss, as opposed to if it's just there, then I'll spend the day just making sure that it's perfect and then just push the goddamn button and it just be done, you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, just go for it, man, I mean, get something like anchor, and I'm not one. Tanner will tell you there's definitions or things that you have to follow here. But I would just get something like anchor and just try it out, and if you like it, then you can take more of the approach of you know, splitting it out just from the one app and legitimizing it. Go ahead, Tanner, Yeah, Anchor is the I mean, you're looking for the one stop way to do it. Anchors the way to do it. But the thing is that anchors as you grow and get better and get smarter time forever. If you don't care about your hosting provider, but creating in that way, you'll say, no, I can do better if I have a dog dog. No, I can do better if I you know, if I can record in multi track. No, I can do better if I can learn how to use a compressor than a de noiser. And I mean, but if you're just going to get into it to figure out if you like it. A lot of people bash approaching it the anchor way, But I mean, if it's the filter that determines whether or not you take it more seriously, I don't have a problem sending people to Anchor. Yeah, don't go out and spend a bunch of money that you know you enjoy it. I mean, that's yeah, and that's so important too. But honestly, I think for me, ease of access is more important than effort, you know what I mean. Like, and I realized that there's a bunch of effort that goes into do it in traditional way, like all the efforts in the post, or at least most of it. But like I said, I also know what's going to bog me down, and it's all that all those extra steps. If I can just if Anchor just lets me try it and give it a go, then yeah, it's exactly what Tanner was saying, Like that'll that'll term whether or not I get into it more seriously or not for sure, Jesse. Here's an even easier way. Go on, pick up, pick out your phone, find the voice memo, pretend it's Anchor and hit record and then just and then just talk and then you'll get done and you'll like, Okay, that was forty minutes. Do you think that what you know, if it would, would I have put that out in the public or not? If if so, well then you've just figured out I have something to say you know, I once moved across a parking lot. I moved from here to there. It was like seventy feet. It was during a homeless time in his life, exactly. I'm here to say that just moving anywhere in podcasting, even though it's just redirect the feed and important, just just start in the right place. I'm not a fan of anchored anyway. And if you're just trying to figure out if it's if it's too hard to push a button on Audacity, then just record into your phone and just pretend it's anchor and that will let you know that. That should solve that problem. Can I talk for forty minutes into my phone? Well that sounds what you're love that Davis had talk for forty minutes uninterrupted. This is the issue because the thing is that I actually I have tremendously severe ADHD and then a wide spread of interest that cover a number of topics, and I've researched extensively for a number of years by reading dozens, if not hundreds, if not thousands of books on those same subjects, that I've actually absorbed a significant amount of information for it. But I can't wait to turnaround and actually redistribute in a way that is accessible and approachable by the masses, which, as we all know, audiobooks super easy to do, a plus podcast super easy to do. So when I say, believe me, can I get going and talking? Holy fuck? Am I not concerned about it? Yeah? What's more? Well, I also know that this is the voice I should probably be doing it, and rather than the full ADHD speed and on that be yourself. Practice it like this. It is probably pretty good. Yeah, as somebody who himself has never been diagnosed, but I'm I'm ricochet rabbit. More planning equals less editing, no planning, lots of editing, and that will solve a lot of your problems too. So Dave Jackson's advice was just like, hey, you want to become a professional mountain climber, I'll tell you what you do. You go to the playground, get on the Jungle Jim tracks. That's well, he was saying. That was he was saying. It was you know, audacity was too much of a hurdle. So I'm like, well, all right, what's easier than audacity? Talking to your phone? Can I ask if if trying just like a little like improv three minute TikTok things would be like about the equivalent type of experience in your opinion, like, will that be about the same or is because there's the extra film element? Will that not quite port over doing that? Then you might like doing more touch? Yeah, content creation is content creation. The bottom line is just don't be boring. Also, well, I feel like I'm taking up a lot of space, but I also got pretty much exactly the direction I was hoping again, and by that I mean like information and feedback. So thank you all very much. The three minute podcast is there's nothing wrong with that at all. There's a podcast, the Daily, like a daily cybersecurity news podcast that I listened from the Internet Storm Center. I've been listening to that thing for for years now and it's like five minutes every morning. It's awesome. Well shit, I think that's exactly what I'm gonna do to give a try. There's this a little three minute random TikTok podcast. Thank you so much. And I love the idea that there's a three minute cybersecurity podcast. Is it just somebody screaming we're fucked for a sustained three minutes yep, one don't get hacked. That's it. There's no step two. Turn off your computers now the ends. Don't password, don't use password as your password. Ye have withthing else Dave Jones. No, no, I'm good. Okay, Well we'll go ahead and go through here. We're over, which is the new problem. I appreciate everybody for hanging out past the top of the hour, and it's nice to meet you Jesse and then some of the other people that are new to the space and debating on getting into podcasting. That's why we do this. We'll go around for closing thoughts and put a book into this. I think for me it's really have two things. The first is I think there's definitely a jamingo and the people with commenting throughout this Twitter space highlighting the fact that there's definitely more need of an educational piece for the work, the great work that you and Adam are doing. Dave Jones. Sorry, there's a lot of days going on around here. I just think, uh, it just to me, it just shows that the there's a gap between understanding what you all are doing, and I think this has been a very educational space. I appreciate you taking them. Yeah. Absolutely. If if anybody you know, we'll be doing a presentation on this podcast movement, and I hope that helps people too and encourage people to come and and see that. Will be going through every single feature. Adam is going to start off with with a whole presentation about value for value, how to do it the correct way, and then we're literally just going through every single feature and giving a given a thumbnail sketch of how it works and what it looks like. Definitely come to that. And if I'm if anybody you know sees me at podcast movement, I'm always happy to chat for a while or do a beer or whatever. Awesome. And my second thing is, it's a question for Melissa, is this haircut of your son similar to Dave Jackson's down there in that picture. I think it is. So I didn't mean to insult you. The mullet, it's all he can't well. He goes to this harbor and he walks in and comes out two seconds later with a mullet, and he goes, how do you like it? And I was like, I just I couldn't stop laughing. And it's because he likes the way it looks under his football helmet and also some girl likes it, so but yes it does. It does look a little bit like Dave's and David, look, you you rock it a lot better than my son. I don't think there's a mode in that picture. I look, she was talking about the Ellen degenerous top half. Oh my goodness, there just kidding. I'm sorry, No, im sorry, all right, Greg, what you got for pleasant thoughts? Thanks guys, Thanks Melissa. No. I think that I was actually really excited to hear from you, Dave and learn more about podcasting to dot oh, because you know, I think it kind of gets a bad rap, because you know, the value for value gets wrapped into like the core, you know, the like the core of it, and then you have this kind of religious debate about crypto and or not crypto Is it good? Is it bad? And it's kind of lumped into that, and I like to hear about all the other stuff that makes it great and all the other good work that you're doing, because that's just one thing. It's it's a it's a you know, a good thing and a complex thing and an important thing, but it's only one thing. So I really appreciated hearing about that. Okay, the most hated man in podcasting Tanny Campbell, why do you encourage it? You know, I came in late. I wish I hadn't. I'm sure I probably missed ten or fifteen minutes worth of good conversation. I'm sorry about that, Dave. I'm looking forward to spending some time with you a podcast movement to chit chat about some of the things we've already talked about in DM, but also some of the stuff we talked about here, because i'd like to be a you know, I'd like to find a way to be an advocate for moving the specs forward or moving the work forward, even though I'm not you know, I'm not a coder of any kind, so I can't help you in that department. Uh, but it'll be interesting to get to talk to you, and hopefully I can lend a hand in some meaningful way or at least learn better. And I just enjoyed hearing some of your answers. I hope I didn't put anything to you too hard. No, no, no at all, that's absolutely not. It's great, Jim Mallard. I like are some of the thoughts that I've already heard. But I'm also I'm going to pick one very specific thing and mentioned this, and I think it's kind of not to be lost, and maybe I'm out the lunch, but maybe I'm not. When we're starting to add transcriptions, that mix shows more discoverable discoverable, which will be good for people besides Joe Rogan, well said, Hall of Famer, my good friend, Dave Jackson, what are you closing, thoughts man? Well, number one new podcast apps dot com is where you need to go so that you can start streaming SATs to your favorite podcast. And I had one other point, and I had it and then it went away, so it must not have been that important. But thanks for having me. Always great to talk about this and look forward to sitting in on Dave's presentation of podcast Moving. You're getting old on me, Dave. That's it. I had it, man, it was right there and it was like boom, you said, all right, Hall of Famer, and I laughed and was like went right out the window. Well, I think you want to fall on and I can't get up. Just to keep you safe, that's it. Dave Jones will give you. I know you just kind of went on a small plug there, but I do want to give everybody in here listening and the opportunity to hear about where to find all the awesome stuff that you're doing. Yeah, probably for anybody that's a developer, the best place is go to podcast index dot social. If you need an invite for that. We had to close it up and do an invite thing because it's it just started getting hit with spammers. But if you want to join in, there's lots of developers there from the hosting side and from the app side, and it's a very open place that shares code and ideas all the time about podcasting two point zero. Hit me up Dave at podcast index dot org is my email address, and I'll send you an invite. I would love to have you. If you're a podcaster, just keep keep your eyes peeled with your hosting company. Let them know that you want some of this stuff in an easy way. If you're going to be a podcast movement, come see the talk and grab me in the hall whatever you need. But yeah, just joined joined in those places and we do all of our work in the open. Nothing's hidden. If you want to download the entire index feed database, you can do that. It's right on the homepage of podcasting podcast index dot org. So everything's open and free and just participate. Everyone to again, man, it was very nice for you take in the time to do this, and uh, thank you for contributing. You know, you and Adam Curry and the team for all you're doing for podcasts and so I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks a lot for having me appreciate it, no problem, still losing my voice for from uh the covid here Greg take us home. Thanks a lot for everybody coming. If you want to re listen to this show or listen to past shows, you can go to Podcastingpower hoour dot com and it's at the same time. So if you're here late, we started at nine pm Eastern Standard time, so you know enter if you came in nine fifteen, we did start at nine So yeah, your piece of no no. I just using you as a as a way to remind everyone else. So thank you for being a good sport and we'll see you next week. Be good, be safe and don't litter and unfollow Tanner Campbell if you're following him, please, I love you ahead. Thank you for listening to the Podcasting Power Hour. Everyone is free to participate on Twitter spaces every Monday at nine pm Eastern time. To join, just follow Jeff at podcast underscore Father or Greg at Indie Droppin'. If you found this podcast helpful, go into your podcast app and write a quick review. Other podcasters will see it and know this show is worth listening to. Also, I'll put a few links in the show notes for ways you can support the show. I think by now you know we love our coffee. Have a great week. Thank you for checking out this episode of Eddie Podcaster. I really do appreciate it. If you're interested in learning more about this podcast, you can go to podcastfather dot com. If you're interested in all the different kind of work that I'm doing, you can go to Jeff Townsend dot Media. Contact form on there various other different podcasts and projects that I'm evolved in that I think you will enjoy. But again, thank you for supporting me, and make sure you support any dropping network like we cover to the beginning, get your podcast featured on there. Until I see you next time, take care of yourself and keep being you and keep being great. Jeff Townsend Media sees you. Good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back? Will you be back. Are you coming back