Podcasting Power Hour: How to understand and manage your influence with Jason Falls

[00:00:00] What you gonna do, brother, when Jeff Townsend Media runs wild on you? Podcasts is made for podcasters and other content creators. Certainly they'll consider myself a guru nor either do any of my friends that will be featured

[00:00:42] in these episodes, but what we do like to do is talk content creation, pick each other's brains and have a good time. I'm proud to mention that this podcast is sponsored by Indie Drop-In. Now let me tell you something about Indie Drop-In.

[00:00:54] This is an awesome network that my friend Greg has created. What he does is drop episodes from independent content creators into his established podcast audience on his feed and he shares your episodes to an audience that already exists. Yes, it's like free advertisement promotion for your podcast.

[00:01:10] He spent a lot of time, money and effort building it and he already has an audience interested in the content and he can certainly help you by sharing your content as great promotion. Go to indiedropin.com slash creators and check it out if you're a comedy true crime

[00:01:24] paranormal or various other different kinds of podcasts, you can benefit from this. So I really encourage you once again, go to indiedropin.com slash creators and see if you can get your stuff featured on Indie Drop-In. We'll go back to the podcast here, Indie Podcaster.

[00:01:39] So what we've currently been doing is sharing content from three different projects that I'm involved in. The first is good morning podcasters with my good friend Fuzz Martin. We also do some content on podcasting sucks.

[00:01:50] And then in these episodes, you will also hear some content from podcasting Power Hour. Podcasting Power Hour is a live thing we do on Twitter Spaces. We get a whole bunch of great podcast minds together and we talk podcasting.

[00:02:01] So if you're a content creator or podcaster, I think you'll take something away from every episode of the content I'm going to share with you. With that being said, make sure you check out Indie Drop-In and make sure you enjoy this episode.

[00:02:12] I think it's important that we all continue to learn and grow every day and that will help us become even better content creators. That's certainly what I try to do, learn something new every day. I'm excited to share this content with you.

[00:02:22] I think it'll be a learning experience for you. Let's get to this episode and I hope you have a great time listening to it. Welcome to podcasting Power Hour with your host, Jeff Townsend, aka the Indie podcast father. I'm your co-host Greg from Indie Drop-In Network.

[00:02:52] Podcasting Power Hour is recorded live every Monday at 9pm Eastern time on Twitter Spaces. Every week, an experienced panel of podcasters and other experts will tackle your podcasting questions. We will of course put links to all of our guests and any relevant information in the show notes.

[00:03:13] All right, let's get this party started. Welcome to podcasting Power Hour. I can't believe it's August already. Let's bring the heat. I am Jeff Townsend, the host of this space, and of course COVID-19 positive. I feel like shit. I'll describe to you how I feel.

[00:03:31] You know how when you step in dog shit and wet grass, it's like a terrible feeling? That's how I feel right now. But we're still going to keep it together here and do this.

[00:03:42] Of course helping me is old Greg from Indie Drop-In and he has a million other podcasts. How are you doing, Greg? I'm doing great. I mean, it's nice to hear your positive about something because lately you've been very negative. Wow. Okay.

[00:03:59] And also helping out the most hated man in podcasting, Tanny Campbell. God, please start calling me Tanny. I would love that. Hey, Jeff, I'm sorry you're not feeling good, man. Oh, it's okay. I'm just glad to be here. Of course, Jim Mallard also is with us.

[00:04:18] He's been podcasting for the Mallard Report for about 11 years. I was lucky enough to be on the podcast last week. I'm sure there were millions of downloads, Jim. Well, the podcast hasn't came out yet, but when it does, we'll be sure to tell you.

[00:04:31] And your description also sounds like how you look. So it's all good. Oh my God. Dang. Why are we all so fucking salty on Mondays? We should do this on Thursdays when we're all tired. Well, normally, Tanner, Jeff is all over you.

[00:04:45] So it's our chance to get to him when he's weak. That's right. He's limping, get him. Jen from JVision, advertising and marketing. She deals with some pretty decent high-level clients. She's going to take the time and join us tonight. I know she likes talking marketing and advertising.

[00:05:02] So thank you, Jen. Thank you, Jeff. Hi everyone. Happy to be here. And of course, last but certainly not least, he's a Hall of Famer. The ladies call him DJ, but I call him Uncle Dave Jackson. Thanks for joining us, man.

[00:05:20] Is it like bring your own nickname night or something? Uncle Dave, I do like Tanny. That's got a nice ring to it, but happy to be here. Just be happy it wasn't DJ. DJ. Do the ladies actually call you DJ though? Now I must know.

[00:05:36] I am a guy that literally has had some. I could boar to death. I've had eight million nicknames. DJ was in there as well as JD, Vettward, you name it. People have called me many very strange things. Did you have a lot of dyslexic friends?

[00:05:50] What was JD in there? JD, I got hired at a place that had four other Dave. So we already had like Dave, Davey and David and they're like, crap, and then we hired another Dave and they're like, do you have any nicknames?

[00:06:04] And I go, my last job, they called me jamming Dave. They go, that's too long. You're JD. And I was like, okay. So that's kind of how it, you know, my brother is doing that now. Well, he was right. He bored us to death. Dave, I'm asleep already.

[00:06:20] Dang it. He recalls the first day at Libson. That's it. Oh, anyways, the man of the hour is going to help us tonight and talk some marketing, the podcast marketing guy, Jason Falls. Thanks for joining us, man. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

[00:06:37] I've tried to come in on a couple other calls and Monday nights are just terrible for me. So this is actually my first power hour. It will not be my last, I'm sure. You're busy watching Rasslin, right? Yeah. Yeah. Rasslin and cock fighting, man.

[00:06:52] That's that's the big thing here. You got your sipping whiskey with you. Actually, I do. I topped off. I'm going to a little old school here, a little, a little tailgate party. I've topped off my very large stadium cup of diet soda with a little

[00:07:10] knob creek, so I'm feeling pretty good. Hmm. All right. In the meantime, if you have anything you want to discuss or questions, go ahead and request to speak. We'll go ahead and get things going with Jason.

[00:07:23] It's by no means an interview, but we will give you a few. Excuse me. A little bit of time to talk about what you're doing and how long you've been doing it. Well, sure. And, you know, thanks for that opportunity.

[00:07:34] So I have been in the digital social media space for 20 years or so. I'm a PR guy by trade working at an ad agency in 2005 and happened to know blogging and social networking sites just because I played on them,

[00:07:52] you know, for fun and had clients clamoring and saying, well, we want you to do that for us. And so I kind of walked into a second phase of my career. Currently, an influence marketing strategist and consultant. I work primarily with an advertising agency in Lexington, Kentucky

[00:08:11] called Cornette, but I've expanded that consulting business and now I'm working with other people too. Part of what I do with my influence marketing work is I have a podcast called WinFluence, the influence marketing podcast, which is a

[00:08:26] spin-off and companion to a book that I wrote about the topic. I have a slightly different take on influence marketing, which is probably less important for the conversation here. But in the pursuit of marketing that podcast and trying to find

[00:08:42] networks where I could get cross promotions and maybe find ways to monetize my podcast, my own little journey. I got really frustrated that I was on an ad network that I never saw any revenue from, nor did I ever see any cross promotions.

[00:09:00] And so I just got mad one day and started my own and called it the marketing podcast network because I knew, Hey, I know a bunch of people in the marketing space that have podcasts. Maybe I could talk them into joining me and we could kind of combine

[00:09:14] forces here. And what dawned on me while I was doing that was if I can turn to us an advertiser and say, I can guarantee you that 100% on this network are marketers because that's all we do or marketing podcasts.

[00:09:31] That's a pretty good sales pitch and I can probably sell some ads that way. And so I started the marketing podcast network in November. We're almost a year old. We've got about 32 shows now. 29 of them are on the ad network.

[00:09:44] And then we've got three that have opted to just be sort of thought leadership podcasts that pay a membership fee to be a part of the network. If you're on the ad network, you don't pay a membership fee at all. And we split our revenue.

[00:09:57] We automatically cross promote each other with show. And then we have a monthly creators call and a Slack community where we support one another in our growth, our technology questions, all that good stuff. So that's what I love to.

[00:10:10] Well, when I hold on a second, Jason, because I don't want to let you off the hook here. You came in talking smack, but you and I have a lot of things in common. One of those things is that we used to have an aggressively titled show in

[00:10:21] your case, a book. And we decided, ah, we probably shouldn't be that aggressive. You want to tell that story? Both have pretty cool beards, too. Oh, his is way better. Yeah. Yeah. My mind is way better, but that's OK. Timmy East.

[00:10:34] Scott, he needs a few more years to have some length and some gray. He'll get it. It's no big deal. Yeah. So my my first book that I wrote in 2011 with my friend and co-author Eric Deckers was called No Bullshit Social Media.

[00:10:49] And the point of that book was, you know, at that point in time, very early on in the brands using social media space, you still had a lot of people saying it's all about joining the conversation and it's holding hands around the campfire and singing Kumbaya.

[00:11:04] And I was working at an ad agency. I couldn't do that with my clients. I had to talk to them about how social media marketing could lead to customer acquisition growth, things like that. So Eric and I sat down and decided we were going to write

[00:11:17] a book about social media strategy. And I really wanted it to be kind of in your face because that's kind of my personality. And we pitched it to the publisher and they said if Barnes and Noble says

[00:11:27] it's OK, it's OK with us and Barnes and Noble loved it. And it, you know, sold modestly well for a business book. And then this last, last book that I wrote, WinFluence, reframing influencer marketing to ignite your brand is the official title of it.

[00:11:42] I wanted to I really wanted to the voice inside my head, the devil on one shoulder was saying, you've got to be controversial. You've got to put a title on this book that's going to match or Trump. No bullshit social media.

[00:11:55] And of course, the book is all about influence marketing without the R. And that's kind of my take on influence marketing is it's more than just social media celebrity influencer types. And so working title for the book as I wrote it was fuck the Kardashians.

[00:12:15] But cooler heads prevailed mine mostly during the process. And I thought, yeah, nobody's really going to take me seriously if that's the title of the book. So we opted for something a little bit more business friendly. What did Barnes and Noble say to that one?

[00:12:30] Well, we didn't even pitch it to him. I made the decision to pull that title before we ever got to the point of trying to promote it to anyone. I said, no, I'm a little older. I'm a little wiser.

[00:12:42] I know that that's going to turn a lot of people off. So I just backed off of it. I would buy two copies of that book. Well, my whole goal, I told Tanner this couple, you know, a couple of weeks ago,

[00:12:52] we had we had tacos and burritos together in Denver. And I told him this, that my whole goal with that title was to get Kanye to tweet fuck Jason Falls. And I thought if I do that, I can retire. I'm done. That's all I need to do.

[00:13:06] If only you'd known that NFTs were going to be a thing. You could have meant to that. You'd be a millionaire by now. Exactly. I was going to say if you could have got it

[00:13:14] for a black bound book, so nobody would have to buy it to see what's on the inside. You could have probably sold a couple of million copies of it. That's true. I could have. That would have been great.

[00:13:24] If anybody listening has any questions or something they want to discuss, feel free and request the mic. We'll let Greg and Tanner kick it off as I'm quickly losing my voice here. I got the vid. Why don't we let Jen's got her hand up?

[00:13:39] Why don't we let Jen ask? Go ahead, Jen. Oh, hi. Sorry. Well, I said I do have like a million questions for you. But first of all, we are like colleagues. We have a similar history, which is really amazing because every time that I see

[00:13:54] everyone talking about advertising and the way that, well, not just advertising, but the digital marketing aspect as well, the way that you are, it kind of inspires me to do the same thing. Because I've always wanted to do like something different into this industry. Right?

[00:14:09] But one thing that caught my attention that you said about the influencer marketing is like I've seen your work, what you have been doing and the difference that you're trying to make in the industry. But the main question would be, do you consider yourself an influencer? Oh, wow.

[00:14:25] I mean, within a certain sphere, sure. You know, and this dates back to I started my original sort of foray into the space was I started a blog called social media explorer, which, you know, I did a pretty nice job of growing that audience for a few years.

[00:14:41] And I started to have software companies in the social technology space reach out to me and say, hey, we'd like to partner with you. Can you do a webinar with us? Can we sponsor a blog post? And so, you know, in the 2010 2011 range, I was getting offers

[00:14:58] from brands to leverage my own. So within that social technology, social listening, influencer marketing software space, I definitely consider myself an influencer. And I think that really helps me bring interesting perspectives and strategies to clients because I see the industry from a lot of different sides.

[00:15:16] I've been at a brand. I've been at an agency. I've been a content creator slash influencer as well. Probably the only facet of the influence marketing sphere I have not had firsthand experience being a part of on a day to day basis

[00:15:33] working at one of the software companies. But my whole job as an influencer is to review and use all these software so that I can talk intelligently about them. So I do consider myself an influencer, but I don't have an ego about it

[00:15:47] because I realized that, you know, as my friend, Chris Brogan, used to say, I nobody at Walmart knows who I am. So I don't I don't think of myself as important. I just think there are a certain number of people who listen to what I have to say.

[00:15:59] Would you think if people at Walmart knew your name that you were important, Jason? Well, no, that was that the barometer. No, that was that was Chris's point because I can assure you if I walk

[00:16:10] into the Walmart in Pikeville, Kentucky, they know the people there know who I am. That's not impressive. Well, you touched on something there that I think everybody in the in the room maybe has some misgivings about. I know that I do.

[00:16:23] I'm from New England, born and raised in Concord, New Hampshire, Little Town called Sugar Hill. And, you know, I've got some of that Protestant ethic or Protestant morality beaten into me over the years. And there's something about calling yourself an influencer that is just

[00:16:39] it makes me uncomfortable, just teases me about all the time. And I think that most people when they hear it, if they are, you know, if they're not saying it about themselves, they hear someone else say it about themselves. It doesn't.

[00:16:50] What's the deal with that in your estimation? I mean, you've been in this for a long time. Well, I'm glad you asked that question because I've said this before. I got into really this was again years ago.

[00:17:00] I got into an argument with Doug Carr, who's a real good Mar-Tech blogger and expert. And I call him an expert, you know, because he is. But he called himself an expert back then, just like people those influencers now.

[00:17:17] And I got into an argument with him actually, I think on his podcast a long time ago, I said, you can't call yourself an expert, man. That's like saying you're good in bed. You don't know if you're good in bed. That's for other people to judge.

[00:17:28] If someone calls you an expert, then in your mind, you are an expert and you thank them for the compliment and move on. But you saying you are one or you saying you are an influencer, I think is kind of makes you a douchebag.

[00:17:40] And I've just, I don't know. I've always kind of shied away from that. I think that I phrased it to other people is I have a certain amount of expertise. I have a certain sphere of people that I might influence.

[00:17:52] But the title is something other people have to give you. Well, so how do you because there's a juxtaposition there, right? You talk about influencer marketing with people whom maybe you are trying to convince to become influencers.

[00:18:05] So when they feel uncomfortable about it, how do you get over that hump? Because I imagine that might be a little bit of an awkward conversation, especially the more stoic or reserve the person is about that sort of thing.

[00:18:17] Well, the good fortune that I have in working with, you know, creators is kind of the new phrase we're trying to use to identify them is that almost every single one of them has a disproportionately large ego.

[00:18:30] And so they are going to call themselves an influencer and they are going to, you know, put on the pomp and circumstance that, you know, they have hundreds of thousands of minions just waiting for their every post or word or picture or reel or whatever.

[00:18:47] So I don't have to deal with the humility a whole lot on this side of the aisle. Perfectly. But at the same time, you know, I have had some, you know, what would consider either micro influencers or some people who are

[00:19:00] thought leaders within like B2B industries that they don't they don't have big Instagram accounts. They don't have a huge following on Twitter. And I say, hey, I'd like to partner with you on this and, you know,

[00:19:11] I have a budget I'd love to pay you to collaborate with this client of mine to create content. And they look at me or they they act like, what are you talking about? Like I don't, this is not something I do. And then I just illustrate the point.

[00:19:23] You have an impact on the audience that my client is trying to reach. Let me help you monetize at least in this one instance. But then I can also, just because I'm a nice guy and I like to see

[00:19:35] people succeed, I can also give you some tips on how you could better position yourself and your personal brand to do this more so that you can have a nice little side hustle. And typically they love that.

[00:19:47] So you recognize them as influential in their space, whatever it is. It's just the when they say it about themselves, that's the thing that's yeah, I mean, if someone introduces themselves to you as an influencer, proceed with caution.

[00:20:01] You know, I actually noticed earlier this week that anybody who has a what kind of profile do I have Jason, a creator profile, I guess, or business profile here on Twitter? Yes, it gives you like a category of things you can select from.

[00:20:13] And influencer is now one of the selections. And I thought that that was hard. Yeah, well, I guess that's the social networks, you know, sort of pandering to that crowd because, you know, whether it's Twitter or, you know, Instagram, Facebook, Meadow, whatever you want to call that

[00:20:28] conglomeration, TikTok, they're all trying to, you know, bring those content creators in because those content creators help make their sites stick. But unfortunately, it's a little bit of a trap because they're trying to bring all those content creators in and have them

[00:20:45] identify themselves as quote unquote influencers so that they can lay all sorts of, you know, fees and limit access to that person with brands by doing the brand collaborations officially and whatnot. So it's a little bit of a mixed bag right now on how the social

[00:21:02] networks are identifying these people because I think there's some risk there for the content creator to dive too deeply into that. But at the same time, you know, we're in the wild, wild west here. And so the social networks are going to always try to figure out how

[00:21:17] they can monetize anything to, you know, feed their shareholders what they want to see and to date content creators slash influencers who are, you know, getting brand deals and making money outside of those platforms. Well, Mark Zuckerberg doesn't get his cut of that.

[00:21:36] And so I think they're doing more and more things to tighten the screws and make it harder for brands to partner with collaborators without officially going through the social networks. There's always a bigger fish trying to get theirs. Oh, yeah. Well, OK, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Greg.

[00:21:52] I thought you just said no in the back channel, my bad. I was saying no to Jeff, not to you, Taney. So I wanted to kind of roll this back to podcasting a little bit and just remind everybody down in the audience that if

[00:22:04] you have a question for Jason or for anyone up here in the panel, feel free to request to speak. But Jason, I heard some angst in your kind of description of how you monetized your original podcast, you know, you were on

[00:22:21] that work and didn't get any money and had to kind of do it yourself. Can you walk us through the other side of the equation of actually acquiring listeners? Did you find that easy, hard? What was your strategy? Yeah, that's a great question.

[00:22:33] And it's it's hard for me to judge whether or not it was easy or hard because I always had a very realistic view of where I sit in the space. My podcast is not about marketing. My podcast is not about social media marketing.

[00:22:50] My podcast is about influencer marketing, and I kind of perceive that it's, you know, not about the content creator so much as it is the brand or the agency that's trying to figure out how to do this.

[00:23:02] So that is so very niche and so very limiting to how big the audience really is. So I never really sort of judged whether or not this was easier or hard. I knew it was going to be a tough road to hoe.

[00:23:17] But because of my background in marketing and my background, certainly in organic and social media content, I knew that I was going to publish every episode on my blog. I knew that I was going to promote it on certainly Twitter, where

[00:23:33] I probably have my biggest audience, although Twitter is a little different than it was when I built that audience. I was going to promote it certainly on Facebook. I was going to promote it on LinkedIn was my primary place because that's where businesses talk to other businesses.

[00:23:48] So that was a better place for me to promote it. I did experiment with some short runs at podcast advertising and things like that when I was first getting started. But the primary mechanism for me to promote my podcast was the same mechanism

[00:24:04] I used to promote my book, which was I pitched the hell out of myself to be guests on other podcasts. And I probably got the first 500 or so regular listeners slash downloads per month or week or whatever by simply just going

[00:24:21] to be a guest on all my friends shows and talking about the concept of when fluence and talking about the book. And so it really is getting yourself out there in front of people who already listen to podcasts.

[00:24:34] It sounds like your niche, though, is the enabler of that, right? Because you have something very specific to pitch to other podcasts to talk about. Yeah, it is. And it's it's really interesting because I have pitched myself

[00:24:48] to some podcasters and say and in the pitch or in the conversation about what we'll talk about or whatnot, they have a realization that one of the reasons that I'm pitching them is because they are an influencer and I want to reach their audience.

[00:25:02] So I'm using influence marketing to just grow my podcast. And it's been surprising to me how many podcasters I've talked about this over the last couple of years who never in a million years would have put themselves into the category of an influencer or quote unquote influential.

[00:25:19] And I'm like, dude, you've got a captivated audience that listens to you on a regular basis. There's you're a better influencer than most people on Instagram because people literally hang on your every word and listen to what you say. And so you're right.

[00:25:34] It is a little bit of a weird kind of dichotomy and contradiction in all either I approach I achieve what I did with growing my podcast. But it was really just kind of implementing the

[00:25:46] the strategies that I had put in the book and was working with clients around. Awesome. Well, it looks like we have a new speaker request. The Bro Mingo's podcast. Awesome. Yes. Speak up. Ask your question. We're here for you. Good evening, everybody.

[00:26:02] Everybody hear me OK? Yeah, you sound great. OK, great. First of all, Jeff, good to see you, buddy. Hope you feel better from covid. Second of all, thank you guys for allowing me to speak. Third, so I have two podcasts.

[00:26:17] One of them, of course, is the Bro Migo's podcast, which I do with a few other guys. 69 Whiskey, my other podcast is a very different show entirely. The content is different. I'm trying to find different but similar ways to market

[00:26:33] the book, two of them just to see if I can streamline it a little bit better. Right now, I don't know if I'd say I'm in a bit of a trap of marketing when it comes to maybe say specifically Twitter and Instagram.

[00:26:47] I kind of try and market them the same, but technically, how I do it is I use a lot of hashtags within my actual caption just to push it out there because I figured the more hashtags you have or at least relevant hashtags, it kind of helps you.

[00:27:04] In addition to that, like in, for instance, the podcast account I'm on right now, Bro Migo's. Every time we have a new episode, during the recordings that we do, I post a behind the scenes clip, so to speak,

[00:27:17] of a soundbite that's going to end up on the episode, but kind of gives you a behind the scenes look at what it kind of looks like as we kind of, as we talk. So I'm not sure, like, because I've done different things

[00:27:31] from my creating quote unquote thumbnails to put in the tweet as like an idea of what the episode's going to be about, but along with some directories where you can find the show. I've done the behind the scenes clips. You know, I'm trying to do different things.

[00:27:48] I'm just curious to know maybe what I can do better in this sense because it is two different shows and it's two different ways of marketing. I guess for condensing the question, I guess we'll just refer to this account that I'm on. Is that hopefully is that easy?

[00:28:06] Yeah, yeah. And or am I Jason, do you want to tackle it? And then maybe we get Jen's perspective perspective too. Yeah, sure. I'll jump in and just kind of as a follow on to what I was sort of talking about earlier.

[00:28:17] I think one thing that you did mention that I hope you're either doing or you will soon do is, you know, pitch yourself to be a good guest on other podcasts, you know, work your your part and, you know,

[00:28:30] obviously you want to pitch yourself or you want to be a guest on podcasts that have similar audiences and or similar subject matter. And I know that, you know, for Bro Meagos, it looks like it's more just, you know, some friends sitting around chatting.

[00:28:43] Well, hell, there's, you know, a thousand of those out there. So it's about making those connections and saying, hey, if if, you know, my audience would really like your podcast and your audience would really like my podcast, maybe we, you know, trade that kind of out.

[00:28:57] One of the things that I try to encourage the podcasters on the marketing podcast network to do is, you know, try to be a guest on everybody else. So because that just expands the reach of who you are, which can grow your listenership.

[00:29:09] But I've also been encouraging them to do feed drops and say, hey, I really want you to get to know this other show on the marketing podcast network. I did that not too long ago with Sarah Panoos is one of our marketers, one of our podcasters.

[00:29:21] And she does a show called Marketing with Empathy. And I just really like her perspective. It's not my perspective. It's not the kind of topic that I would necessarily tackle. But she did an episode that was relevant to influencer marketing.

[00:29:35] So I, you know, basically just, you know, sent her a message and said, hey, I'm going to steal your show and drop it in my feed to promote you. And I did that. So I would encourage you to do those two things.

[00:29:46] You know, think about, you know, being a guest on somebody else's podcast. And then when you get a really good relationship with some folks, maybe suggest a feed drop swap and promote yourself that way. Yeah. So it's funny you mentioned that on my other account,

[00:30:01] we've done that quite a bit. We're definitely going to try and do that more. It's just, you know, schedules and, you know, everything kind of goes into, you know, trying to get us together to make that sort of thing happen.

[00:30:13] Otherwise I would just be by myself and I can try and be as entertaining as I can. But I always like to have another member of either of my show of my shows, you know, join me, obviously. So I definitely see if you're coming from on that.

[00:30:26] I'm definitely trying to utilize that more. It's just, you know, like I said, scheduling. Yeah. I mean, I totally agree with that. I've been I have a few, quite a few friends who I've met over the last year or so of me podcasting in general of me.

[00:30:44] We've been on their shows and there was a time where we were doing so many shows and even when one of my other podcasts took a break, I was basically what I like to call whoring myself out to be on other people's

[00:30:56] shows just to keep myself busy and also promote that show while it was on break. So, you know, it's definitely something that works because we still saw numbers from it. So yeah, I do appreciate that feedback. Jen, do you have a perspective on this? Sorry, Jason.

[00:31:13] Well, yes, I actually do agree with Jason in the part that you need to do some collaborations and actually participate in different networking events like related to your niche. But there's one thing that you mentioned that you feel like kind of an

[00:31:27] attract when it comes to the marketing strategy that you use him because it's two different podcasts and I get it, different strategies. Or this there's one thing that a lot of people keep me forgetting and is that advertising is a long term commitment, especially when it

[00:31:41] comes to brand awareness and it's something that down the road is going to be working right? So you need to continue making it basically to track that strategy that is working, what is not working fixed in it, but never stopping it.

[00:31:54] Because a lot of people make the mistake to stop it before it's journey ends. And that's when it hurts the most and it may feel like you're not getting any out of it, but maybe it's because the length has not yet occurred.

[00:32:07] And basically it's not what it's supposed to be. But when you reach that momentum that you keep doing the same thing that you like feeling that you did everything, especially that you keep working on it is when you're going to see that result.

[00:32:19] So do not give up on it. Just making sure that you are adding that strategy that you need and making sure that the strategy that you're using is actually working. Are you seeing some results or somehow that you're moving forward to it?

[00:32:31] So Jason, Jen question for both of you. I'm going to start with a little bit of a story. Tell us story. Sorry. Storyteller. When I was in my late twenties, I took my first job as a marketing director at a dentist office called Spodak dental.

[00:32:46] It's not exactly your normal dental office. If you look up Spodak dental, your job will probably drop. It's a very, it looks like it belongs in LA. Doesn't look like it belongs in Dirty Beach, Florida. And there is a lot of effort around this marketing campaign was

[00:33:00] the branding and the marketing of our mascot, which was a tooth. And we would dress this tooth up in all kinds of different things like hats you'd have a surfboard, depending on what kind, you know, if it was Cancer Awareness Month or something,

[00:33:12] there was always some kind of campaign that was going out to promote the dental office with the tooth. And I remember that I felt for the entire time that I worked there, that my job was very ridiculous. It really just circled around making a tooth look funnier every

[00:33:27] time the tooth appeared anywhere on social media. But it took up a lot of my time. And all it was was a stupid tooth for a dentist office. And so when a host of the Bromigos here came up to stage

[00:33:38] and asked that question, he says, I'm trying to market two podcasts. I know how much marketing can go into a single podcast. How reasonable is it? And you just said this, Jen, how much effort it's an ongoing effort advertising and marketing.

[00:33:56] How reasonable is it for an independent podcaster with no team other than perhaps a co-host to believe that they can do a good job marketing and advertising? Two separate shows, three separate shows, four separate shows. How can they expect to be successful of that and do

[00:34:10] either of you have any tips on how they can be? Jen, you want to start? I mean, you can go ahead. Don't worry. Okay. So it's an interesting question. And for the, you know, as you framed it for the independent

[00:34:25] podcaster who doesn't have a lot of help, it's an uphill battle. That's for sure. The two things that kind of popped into my mind there are, you know, you obviously, if you don't have a lot of capital to invest in paid advertising, it's that, you know, grind it

[00:34:42] out, you know, slow burn of networking, being a guest on podcasts, all that kind of stuff. And you only have so many hours in a day. So I think what you have to do is just prioritize your time,

[00:34:53] prioritize the time every day or every week you're going to spend on each show. Um, and then, you know, go where, you know, fish, where the fish are? If you stick traction with one show, not to necessarily pull yourself away from the other, but when you start

[00:35:10] to see traction, pour gas on that fire. You ride that wave as long as it will go to get you closer to your goal or closer to a critical mass of listeners or revenue or whatever. And then try to make time to go back and revisit and keep

[00:35:27] plugging away at the other show. Um, I think there has to be a line in the sand that you draw from a realism perspective to say, I only have so many hours in a day. I'm probably not monetizing any of these podcasts to the

[00:35:41] point where they're paying my salary, my bills, etc. So I have to pay attention to my day job. I have to pay attention to my family, all that kind of stuff. You're going to have to prioritize it, but it really is prioritizing your time and dedicating maybe it's

[00:35:57] an hour a day, maybe it's a couple hours a week, whatever it is, dedicating the time to doing it and just be really repetitive and focused on, you know, toiling away at it. Eventually you'll get to a point where you'll either see

[00:36:10] the success you want to see or you'll realize this isn't going anywhere and I need to cut that cord and move on to something else that I can focus on. What do you think, Jen? Well, just to add something in there, definitely you

[00:36:23] need to prioritize, but something that I always tell my clients, the first thing you need to do is that research to make sure that you know where your audience is, what to do, when to do it and how to do it.

[00:36:33] If you don't know that part, you still don't know where your strategy is going to go. Even your business or your podcast, you don't know what is going to happen with it until you are like 100% sure that this is where you want to go. This is the route.

[00:36:46] And just like Jason said, you need to know which one you want to go first because that's the one that you actually enjoy the most first of all and it's giving you the more results to it. Once you start with that channel, it's like when

[00:36:58] you have like a multiple pages on social media, you don't know which one to go because at the same time it's a lot of work. A lot of people don't say it and you're supposed to be in every single social media, but it's a

[00:37:08] lot of work and you're not going to have all the time to do it and to work on it. But once you see where your audience is, where you're getting more results, then eventually from that one, the other pages are actually going to grow.

[00:37:20] So the same thing is going to happen even with the different podcasts that you're going to have, you're going to be promoting it between each other, especially when you are on it and the one that you like the most. It's like the best strategy that you can actually

[00:37:31] add up to it. And I'll add to that real quickly. I actually did this not too long ago. I was doing two shows. One was Digging Deeper, which was really a marketing creative interview show for Cornette, the agency where I am. And it was a live stream show.

[00:37:48] So there was a lot more work that went into it because WinFluence, the other podcast to do is really audio only. But it was a live stream show that we did, streamed a bunch of different networks. It was weekly.

[00:37:59] It took a lot of my time, took a lot of planning, took a lot of energy and effort to make that thing come to life. I streamed line my process and got it into a window of time every week that I could afford to give to it.

[00:38:10] And it was for the agency. It was the goal was new business. We were trying to attract people to pay more attention to Cornette and get some guests on that maybe we could start relationships with. And it was modestly successful.

[00:38:23] We were able to get a lot of brands attention because of that show. But after a while, it just got to be, you know, it got to be work. And Christy Heiler, the owner and president of Cornette, my boss and I

[00:38:35] sat down one day or just had a conversation about it. And we both agree. Let's put it on high. Let's give it a month or two. And if we, you know, really feel the desire to get back at, we will. If not, it's OK if we don't do

[00:38:48] another episode. So it's still on this like extended hiatus and that free time that has been opened up because I'm not committing the time to digging deeper anymore. I've been able to pour into a kind of a side pride project podcast for her called agency

[00:39:04] owners in the advertising space. And that podcast is starting to take off. It's an audio only podcast as well. But we're seeing a lot more success more rapidly with that than we did with digging deeper. So I like the decision we made to kind of prioritize our time

[00:39:19] there. So I know that Greg has a question, Greg, I'm sorry for jumping in before you ask yours, but I know it's going to take us away from what we're already talking about. Jason, Jen, first of all, I want to say that I'm a lazy shit.

[00:39:30] Like I do paid marketing because I just can't. I can't handle the time involved in doing like traditional organic marketing takes fucking years to have it work really well for you. And I'm not great at it. So I really admire the skill

[00:39:43] set that the two of you have. You're talking about getting to know your audience. We have a couple of ways of doing that, right? We can see who's engaging with us on social. We can see on what social platforms they're engaging the most with.

[00:39:56] We can do things like put out listener surveys, but the call to action response of the conversion rather on on a listener survey might be so low that the data is not really that useful to us. We have podcast refixes or prepens that we can add in

[00:40:13] our hosting so that we can get some kind of demographic data, for example, a chartable has something like that. Pod track has something like that. I'm trying a new a new startup called Potter that you can find at Potter app dot com. I talk about it in

[00:40:27] tomorrow's episode actually that seems to be using census data and mapping that data to like the zip code of the person who's listening to your podcast to try to make some guesses about, you know, kind of like how they measure billboard ads. Do you guys have any

[00:40:41] other tools that podcast podcasts using affordable tools or methods to find out who the hell is listening to us? Because I feel like it's a little bit more unique than a blog, a little bit more unique than a closed system creator on like Instagram or TikTok.

[00:40:56] Like what can we do to get a better sense of who the hell is listening to us? Are there some analytic apps out there that we don't know about? I say this half in jest and half seriously. I'm waiting on top Webster to invent one.

[00:41:10] But and I think he's in the room so Tom get to work but I really and truly know my audience well just simply because when someone says they listen or when someone says, hey, I heard your episode on XYZ. I'll stop and ask him five or

[00:41:28] six questions. I literally just I find actual listeners and I say, hey, how often do you listen? I literally like the guy outside the supermarket with yeah, absolutely. I'll just quiz them and get some real direct feedback from them because I know it's very difficult for

[00:41:46] me to get that kind of, you know, qualitative data anywhere else. Quantitative data that I get isn't really all that good because I don't have a you know, 100,000 downloads every episode. So I'm not going to get that kind of data for the size show that I have.

[00:42:02] So until of course Tom Webster invents something to solve that problem, which I know he will or be a part of someone something that does. I'm just going to keep talking to my audience. Podcasting Power Hour is part of Indie Drop In Network.

[00:42:19] If you are a podcaster looking to grow your listeners, check out IndieDropIn.com. Indie Drop In is always free and we have opportunities right now for comedy, true crime, scary and paranormal podcasts. Just go to IndieDropIn.com to learn more. Jen, Jen, how about you?

[00:42:42] And then we'll go to Michelle, who I think jumped up here because she probably has some input and then we'll go to Greg. Jen, go ahead. Well, I actually agree with Jason on that. I don't have a podcast, but I think it works either way

[00:42:54] on any single social media page, right? Or any page that you have. I do the same thing on Instagram. Like I ask the people that are tuning in and that engaging with my content and I ask them directly. But there's one thing that is being old enough

[00:43:09] and kind of works somehow. Is that when you do like this type of question quiz for people to find out what do they like and everything like that? It's easier for you to know what kind of audience are you trying to reach and the

[00:43:19] trend, the audience are you trying to engage with, right? So I kind of do the same thing that Jason does just with my Instagram page. Michelle, did you jump up here because you had some input? I do. I have always felt like I have a different take on

[00:43:35] marketing, but I always think about when people don't necessarily have the funds or for whatever reason to invest in marketing. And one of the things that I've done is I'm very intentional about the different projects that I say yes to that will grow my brand in general.

[00:43:57] It's not just the content of the podcast. It's like who knows what you're doing and what you're working on. So I'll give a couple of examples. I'm in the personal finance space. I actually make a point of saying I'm not a financial expert, but I'm an expert at

[00:44:12] financial conversations. And so one of the collaborations that I ended up working on last year was with Experian and they found me because of my little show. They were going to work with a rapper on a project and the rapper didn't work out. And so because I'd been

[00:44:31] working with them on something else like in the freelance space, they were like, Hey, would you be interested in doing this credit series? And I was like, yes. And so I ended up getting paid quite well and flown out whatever. And now I have this

[00:44:46] this content on their website that is out there in the world and a lot of people have seen it and shown it and that kind of thing. Projects that I work on are picked with the intention of not only getting paid, but for people for back linking to

[00:45:04] my website. Like it's a whole ecosystem that I'm thinking of. So when people talk about like marketing their show, I feel like they should have a broader vision around what that looks like. I just finished wrapping up being a host for a podcast that's known in our space

[00:45:26] because the the organization is the organization that hands out awards for people who create content in the personal finance space. So I was the host for this year for their podcast and it went very well. So I do a lot of things like that, that also backlink

[00:45:43] to my show, to my website and build my brand authority and that attracts other opportunities to expand what I'm working on. So that's just something to consider and also design projects that you would like to get paid for so that people or that

[00:46:03] you would like people to notice without waiting for people to say yes to the project. Do you know what I mean? So this whole summer, all I'm doing is I produced a series on on student loan forgiveness. It's top of mind. It's a very evergreen topic.

[00:46:20] I don't know what's happening with it, but it's been a really good piece of work and I've gotten paid for it because I don't do these things for free anymore. It takes a lot of time to to podcast at this point for me. So I find partners

[00:46:35] who make sense for projects that I develop. So right now, I'm developing one on women and money and I'm thinking, OK, which partners make the most sense that one have money to come back link to me can shout me out like it's a whole process.

[00:46:52] So just think broadly as you consider marketing your project. By the way, I have more than one podcast. So I have one on digital marketing. I have one on Colorado. That one's really easy. And it's, you know, you connect with people in person and just think bigger.

[00:47:12] I think that's where people get tripped up. They think too small about what the project is. So, Michelle, would you call your brand authority? Would that be otherwise described as influence? I'm not I'm not following for that. So I'm glad that you brought up

[00:47:30] that you do multiple podcasts because, you know, I have an opinion on multiple podcasts. And, you know, it's really not for the hobbyist. This opinion is really not for the hobbyist because, you know, you can do whatever you want. But I think it's very, very hard

[00:47:47] to have more than one podcast if if you if you want it to be really successful. And, you know, for me, I launched my first podcast. I don't know, it was like 2016 or 2017. It wasn't really that long ago, but I launched it like a business.

[00:48:05] We had two full time employees plus me part time and we still didn't get everything done. So just to think about someone who has a full time job trying to market and write scripts or at least outlines and find content and and just go through the

[00:48:25] just the whole process for more than one show. Seems insane. So I just caution everybody. It's very difficult. Yeah, I just caution everybody if you're going to go down that road, just know that, you know, well, I think Jason or Jen said it

[00:48:45] like one is going to suffer and you should figure out which one has the fish and probably pivot to that one and do the other one for fun. Um, dang, I got two dailies in three weeklies. We try to have a full time job.

[00:49:03] You are a full you are. Oh, that's true. You are a full time content creator. Tanner's a podcast. Sova is what he is. That's a good way to write a word. That's a nice thing, isn't it? Well, I was an influencer. He is an influencer.

[00:49:19] I would, you know, say to that. Hey, I agree. I agree with you. And I think that, you know, focusing on multiple podcasts is very difficult, even even, you know, attention deficit disorder world and no offense to anyone who has official diagnosis.

[00:49:38] But I mean, I don't have an official diagnosis and I cannot keep my focus on one thing for very long either. And and I I know that at the end of the day, when I have to make decisions about what I'm going to put my time into

[00:49:54] it's almost always going to be first. What do I love to do? And second, what is going to help me provide for my kids? And if those two things coincide, I know I got something good. And when influence for me is that digging deeper wasn't so much.

[00:50:12] It was great while it lasted. It was a good experience. If we want to rekindle that at some point, I would certainly be open to it. But when I'm prioritizing and making decisions, it's those two things, man. And if if I really love doing it

[00:50:24] and I'm just impassioned about getting up and thinking about making that better every day and it can help me, you know, put on the table and provide for my family, then that's what I'm going to focus on and everything else can take a back seat.

[00:50:38] This is a good example because what you're describing is this like focus on a singular niche topic genre. Like you're you're passionate about influence marketing to the point where you eat, sleep and drink it. And you can be an authority in the space,

[00:50:57] have an influence sphere, make great content, all those things. And I think in order to be successful in podcasting, like you have to be at that point where you're living it and breathing it because that's what translates to the audience. Because I mean, you're talking about

[00:51:16] getting people to pay attention to you in a world where a million other things are making them to pay attention to not you. Exactly. And in mediocrity is is obvious when you're listening. Now, some people are just amazing and they just don't have to prep.

[00:51:33] But most of us like me like have to do eight hours worth of work for half an hour podcast. That's that's true. And I would say this, though, for those of you out there who are like, well, yeah, but I do two or three podcasts

[00:51:44] or I have another concept I want to start. Don't kill those ideas just because we're saying in order to be really successful, you kind of have to narrow your focus. I would love more than anything to, you know, sit in on two or three other podcasts

[00:52:01] a week and, you know, be one of the panelists or one of the contributors. I don't necessarily want to take on the job of producing and marketing and promoting and an entire other podcast. But I think if I wanted to do, you know, something that was about,

[00:52:18] I don't know, about parenting or about, you know, my life in Kentucky or some of the other things that I'm interested in, even if I were invited to be, you know, a co-host of a bourbon podcast, which is a topic that I feel like I know

[00:52:30] a little bit about and could be pretty entertaining with. I would love to do that. But I also have a radio pedigree and a background. So as long as I don't have to do a whole lot of prep work and a whole lot of post production work,

[00:52:43] I can sit and talk about anything for a long time. And I would have a lot of fun doing that. So I'm not going to kill those ideas. I just can't take on the entire responsibility of them. All right, listen, ladies and gentlemen,

[00:52:57] Jason Falls just gave us a perfectly wrapped up exhibit A of the kind of co-host you don't want to get into bed with. He just wants to show up and talk. No prep, just loaded with bourbon, ready to talk.

[00:53:12] Hey, me drunk on a podcast will be really entertaining. You're welcome to come on any on my other podcast whenever you want, then, Jason. Let's do it. I will say this much, though, because I'm sure maybe someone wants. I know it is the power hour after all.

[00:53:27] So maybe someone may have a question, but I just wanted to thank you guys for your time. All the information I definitely have soaked in like a sponge. And I will say this much, you know, as someone, like I said, I do have two podcasts and, you know,

[00:53:39] for the hobbyists that may be difficult for me, I enjoy it, despite all the work. I mean, it is a comeback off for me. Go somebody tried to approve a request and accidentally muted everyone. Sorry, can you guys hear me?

[00:53:52] Yeah, go ahead. OK, yeah, I was going to say, I definitely wouldn't be taking on the amount of projects I would gone if I didn't want to do stuff like this as a professional career. I mean, Jeff and I have spoken

[00:54:05] a couple of times about how this is the type of thing I actually do want to do. I have worked in radio. I've spent thousands of dollars in school for this sort of thing. So this is the type of stuff I definitely enjoy.

[00:54:15] And I do appreciate the fact that you guys were able to help answer my question to the best of your ability. So thank you. If I could before we move on to whatever the next topic is, and I'm sure Greg's going to tell us here in a second.

[00:54:28] For all of you that are thinking about like what Bro Migo just what's your first name? And I know it and I can't. It's Matt. Matt, for any of you who are thinking you want to make this your full-time thing.

[00:54:41] I know there's a lot of anxiety around making that jump. I mean, it's an experience that I have most certainly had more than one time in my life. It is more possible than you think it is. So if people are telling you it's not possible

[00:54:55] or you're never going to get it done so long as you're open to feedback so long as you're open to taking risks so long as you're committed. I mean, you can make it as a content creator as a personality, as whatever we call ourselves influencers got forbid.

[00:55:08] It is something you can really do. I mean, you just heard Greg make fun of me because I don't have a job even though this is my job and I think that's the point he was making. That's a good job. Yeah. Anyway, go ahead, Greg.

[00:55:20] Yeah, no, no, that's, I think that's a great comment. What I will say is kind of a rule in kind of all business is niches get riches, right? So I mean, you've seen those hair salons where they just blow dry your hair.

[00:55:36] I mean, that you can niche down further than you could ever imagine in the world and there's probably a market for it. I mean, there is such a thing as to niche but I don't think you'll find it in podcasting

[00:55:48] because you can always kind of unlatch the belt, you know, a loop. So what you wanna, you know, if you wanna try to, you know, I'm a big proponent of kind of the middle class of podcaster. I think that, I think like Tanner said,

[00:56:08] if you wanna make 50, 60, $70,000 a year podcasting, I think it's very doable. You can make a lot more but I think if you're just trying to replace like a middle class job, I think you can do it but you need to really focus on the niche,

[00:56:25] how you find value and you gotta eat, sleep and drink that niche so that you can be more valuable in that niche than whoever's currently there or at least as valuable. But, and you gotta be willing to, I mean, if it's a business that you're building,

[00:56:40] you gotta be willing to look at it like that and maybe expand to Jen's point earlier. You kind of have to broaden your, what are we saying? Include more things in your idea of what your business is exactly because you're not just a podcaster really.

[00:56:58] Yeah, I would definitely echo that and as much as I love doing, when influenced the podcast and I've been able to monetize it modestly, it funnels clients, consulting clients to me for influence marketing. That's what it's there for and it's a lead generation source

[00:57:17] and it does not support me by itself nor could it at this point but hopefully five years from now, maybe it's a lot bigger and a lot more well monetized maybe I can stop doing as much consulting work but until then it's always going to serve the purpose

[00:57:35] of feeding those other revenue streams that I've got out there. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be like if anybody in this room was just like moaned because Jason was like consulting clients and you're like, I'm not a fucking consultancy. I can't get any consultant clients.

[00:57:50] I just had a conversation where the podcast I think is called like Pacific Northwest Hauntings or something like that. It's two girls host a podcast about what you think it probably is about, it's about that and they were having a hard time monetizing

[00:58:03] they couldn't come up with ideas to the guy we have a Patreon is not working that well it's not that much money. I said, why don't you start like a private once a month live ghost reading and you sell a $30 t-shirt and that t-shirt promotes the live reading

[00:58:17] and acts as their ticket into the readings for like a year. So they get in there, it's no work for you it's like one thing a month you do for like an hour you get to talk to all your people they all come into a live Zoom

[00:58:27] and they just have to read a couple of ghost stories like sitting around on a campfire, right? And then says that for first years up and that those t-shirt sales and then it's a monthly fee or something like think outside the box a little bit

[00:58:38] don't just limit yourself to Patreon or to like occasional swag purchases like think about how you can leverage these things for ongoing income. Thanks Jim. Jim just wrote it down he's like I'm paranormal. Yeah, just see I'm paranormal we're all a little parents

[00:58:57] but think about how you can use these. Patreon's been, I think I remember Patreon when it came out like 2013 I wanna say or 12 when it came out these things have been around for a while they're not really getting any better think of new creative ways to leverage them.

[00:59:12] I think that membership programs and like private feeds but thinking about them a little bit differently than just an ad free feed I think there's a lot of ways to make money I got a little criticism for a tweet I made earlier today about like $50,000 a year

[00:59:27] in gross revenue is really easy to make if you're willing to make $30,000 and eat noodles for a year you can probably get there maybe even faster than a year I mean it's not that hard to make money it's hard to make a lot of money

[00:59:42] but it's not that hard to make probably what you make at your day job. Well, I'm gonna have a good show first though. Yeah, you definitely have a good show. 100% yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely have a good show and Tanner let me add to that

[00:59:54] consulting is just kind of part of what I do and I would say that that's one revenue stream if you're not, if you don't consider yourself consultant here's something that I think a lot of podcasters maybe don't consider if and one of the other revenue streams

[01:00:10] that I have is speaking at Cops and maybe you have stage fright and you don't wanna get up and speak but you do have the ability to broadcast if you're a podcaster you're a broadcaster and so you could MC an award show

[01:00:25] you could be the host of a conference or an event especially in your niche. If you are for the young ladies that do the paranormal haunting podcast there are conventions, there are events there are things that they could get involved with as broadcasters, as host, as MCs

[01:00:49] and that can be a way to monetize what you do too. So again, just think about what value you can bring to your audience and or other businesses in your niche and that can help open up some revenue streams as well.

[01:01:04] Yeah, okay so 80s, oh Ed, what's up Ed? I'm being asked to queue you up for your question go right ahead. Oh sorry, I was just starting to walk my dogs I thought we were gonna be talking about drunken broadcasting, podcasting

[01:01:18] and so I was just gonna chime in on that but we've long since passed that so I really don't have anything. Well thanks for an amazing final question Ed. He drank all this liquor for no reason. Love it. All right well does anybody have any final questions

[01:01:39] cause we are at 1001 Eastern Time and Jeff is gonna turn into a pumpkin if we don't hang this thing up soon. I think Jeff might be asleep. Michelle, you did come on for a second there off mic just before I called to add did you wanna add something?

[01:01:59] No, I don't have anything to add other than if you love talking about 80s movies and you love to drink tequila or Scotch hook look me up cause I do those things before I broadcast every week myself. I wanted to say that there are so many

[01:02:14] freaking ways you can monetize. Ironically I just did MC an event last weekend with virtual event. I get paid to freelance brand collaborations like there's just so many ways to make money podcasting. I think it's just being clear what works for you

[01:02:34] being open to what's possible, affiliate marketing. I do think you need a website though but there's just it's like the limit is your imagination basically because we're in a creative space. So that's something to think about and being bold enough to connect with other people

[01:02:52] when you have a cool idea that you would like to bring to life and get paid for. Yeah, you kind of got to get this. I know Gary Vee is a little, I don't guess Gary Vee is a little bit like me or vice versa, real aggressive unnecessarily.

[01:03:04] You have to kind of get this fuck whether or not you think I can do this attitude when people kinda tell you you're not gonna be able to make a living with your podcast or that's a stupid idea. Like I imagine anybody who's ever accomplished anything

[01:03:19] in history was told by so many fucking people that it was never gonna work. Like the Wright brothers were like, we're gonna fly like birds and people were like what the fuck are you gonna do? You're not gonna do that.

[01:03:29] This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. And that's a really extreme example but it happens all the time. Gary Vee talks about how your parents especially will hold you back because they love you, they care about you, they don't wanna see you fail

[01:03:39] and so they coddle you. You gotta kinda, you gotta love those people especially your parents I guess. I don't have that relationship with my parents I wonder why. But you have to have those people in your life, you have to love and respect them

[01:03:49] but you also have to have enough strength to be like hey fuck you mom and dad and all my friends who don't want me to get hurt. I wanna risk getting hurt because I wanna fucking do something. I don't even get off my soapbox now. Amen.

[01:04:00] No, no Jason do you have something throw in there? No I was just saying, I was amenning Tanner's soapbox. That's all, amen. Oh don't encourage him, you can't encourage him. I don't piece of shit guys, nobody likes me. It's my only moment to shine. I like you Tanner.

[01:04:15] I did, only us. I didn't forget to mention in the beginning did you guys see that that feature is active down there where you can comment and chat during the space? We should have done that. You're right. Reminded me to bring that up next week

[01:04:28] but anyways we'll move on to the closing thoughts here. I've certainly, although I'm losing my voice have enjoyed this discussion. I know you just kinda had a closing thought there Tanner but do you have anything else? No I just, you know believe in yourself

[01:04:41] I know that's kinda cliche but expand your horizons think you're more than a podcast or your podcast kinda like a handshake that introduces you to a whole ton of potential and opportunity and if you look at it that way

[01:04:52] and you're willing to do more than just the podcast and I'm not belittling people who just want to do a podcast but if you're willing to do more than that you can find just like Michelle said my fellow Coloradan who is probably sweating her ass

[01:05:07] off today as badly as I was. It's like 98 here today, it was ridiculous. Michelle what the hell's going on? The world's ending. If you're willing to do that I mean you can really make your own life you can make it the way you want it

[01:05:18] and I love seeing people do that it's one of the reasons I show up on Twitter and talk shit to everybody. Mr. Mallard, your closing thoughts. My closing thought is I just wanna thank Jason and Jen and Michelle for the information tonight

[01:05:33] and it sounds like you just gotta work hard and show up every day. Beautiful, beautiful. Jen your closing thoughts and you were able to provide great information during this space so thank you. Okay there you are. Sorry I'm sorry it was my kid who's like talking to me

[01:05:49] right now, it's that time. No I think as you know this is a great conversation and I think I have a million questions for Jason so many things that we can actually talk about but this was great and I really hope everyone got something from my expertise

[01:06:05] and I'm happy to be here, thank you. See right there's a good example either Jason just got a consulting client or Jen did. Michelle anything else you wanna throw on? My favorite Jackson speaking of Jackson, Dave Jackson had something come up so we apologize for jumping out.

[01:06:25] Michelle's not speaking up so we'll move on. No I'm good. Well he sounded crazy there. It's like demonic for a second. Greg, oh Greg your closing thoughts. I really appreciate everyone coming to the space I learned so much and I really do think that

[01:06:47] your influence in a given category has a direct relationship to your monetization ability so work on that right? Michelle gave some tips, Jason gave some tips, Jen gave some tips, soak it in and go out there and make some money I believe in you.

[01:07:06] Beautiful, Jason the guest of the hour, your closing thoughts. I really appreciate you guys having me and love the conversation all the smarts that was brought to the table here tonight. It was great to hear and great to see and Greg almost kinda stole my thunder there

[01:07:24] because my closing thought is you all have influence over a certain number of people whether it's your listeners, whether it's your community, your family, your friends, just keep nurturing that and because it's valuable whether or not you wind up making money from that influence or not

[01:07:41] or just being the person who gives good advice or good thoughts on what you know, keep working at it. It's very rewarding in the end. Absolutely, well I do wanna take a second to thank everybody that's listening and the people that continue to listen every week.

[01:07:58] We hope that you come back next week and every other Monday at 9 p.m. Eastern for podcasting power hour. I think that the message delivered tonight is keep being you, being great and don't litter. Definitely that one, don't litter. You bastards. It's too hot in Colorado for Tanner.

[01:08:19] Quit throwing your shit out the window. I don't get a final thought. Yeah, but don't, you already plugged yourself Ed, what more do you want, man? Thank you for listening to the podcasting power hour. Everyone is free to participate on Twitter spaces

[01:08:38] every Monday at 9 p.m. Eastern time. To join just follow Jeff at podcast underscore father or Greg at IndieDropin. If you found this podcast helpful go into your podcast app and write a quick review. Other podcasters will see it and know this show is worth listening to.

[01:08:59] Also, I'll put a few links in the show notes for ways you can support the show. I think by now you know we love our coffee. Have a great week. Just gonna say to the hobbyists who are on the fence

[01:09:14] about moving on to the next level, just do it man. Tanner's kicked my ass number of times over the last several months. Ever since I bought my URL for the podcast, my pot, even though I haven't published a new show in two and a half weeks,

[01:09:32] the numbers for the show keep going up. I'm creating daily content for my website and the views are going up. So just as they say, shit or get off the pot. So I wanna thank Tanner for kicking me in the ass

[01:09:46] enough times to start moving towards the next level. All I heard there was Tanner was an ass. That's all I heard. Yeah, some people, look, some people need a hug to get started and other people need somebody to yell at them. I'm the Yeller.

[01:09:59] Come to me if you wanna yellin' and go to Jim if you wanna hug, a big supernatural hug. Tanner is the world's... Tanner is the world's... None of this will make the final cut, but nevertheless. Of course not. I'm choppin' this right out.

[01:10:13] Okay, you know, babyface to K-Fave. I don't like this, this new Jeff. Your brother's becoming my favorite Townsend. Well, I'm just being honest with you because Greg's the one that edits it and I know he will cut this shit out. He will hack and hack. All right.

[01:10:29] I will not. Guys, I'm out. Greg's like the only person in the room who doesn't follow me, so I'm not too worried about what he does. There you go. I'm not into 80s movies, man. I'm just kidding. I'm totally into 80s movies.

[01:10:43] His age is more into 50s movies. I didn't know they made movies in the 1850s. I just rectified that issue. So if you start complaining again, I will unfollow you. I was gonna say Greg's favorite movies are the ones that didn't have sound. Mm-hmm.

[01:11:01] Yeah, because I add my own sound in the theater, so it's quite fun. Yeah, Greg doesn't go to theaters. I would require him to put on pants. Oh yeah, I have one in my house, so why would I go anywhere? Oh, here we go again.

[01:11:13] That's why he goes to the drive-in. No pants required. There's no drive-ins in East St. Louis anymore. Do I have my camera on? What is going on? Hey, Jeff, I'm serious. Feel better, bud. All right, thanks and I appreciate everybody coming in. See you next Monday.

[01:11:31] Bye. See ya. See ya. Bye-bye. Thank you for checking out this episode of 80 Podcaster. I really do appreciate it. If you're interested in learning more about this podcast, you can go to podcastfather.com. If you're interested in all the different kind of work

[01:11:45] that I'm doing, you can go to jefftownsend.media. Contact form on there, various other different podcasts and projects that I'm involved in that I think you will enjoy. But again, thank you for supporting me and make sure you support any drop-in network like we covered in the beginning.

[01:11:59] Get your podcast featured on there. Until I see you next time, take care of yourself and keep being you and keep being great. Jeff Townsend Media, see you. Good night. And the question is, do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back?

[01:12:27] Will you be back? Are you coming back?